Yet another aviation thread.

Quote: Nareed

My thinking ran more along the lines of how people in the region travel in groups. Your thinking makes more sense.

BTW, I may be wrong, but I think JAL also offers 8-abreast seating on the 787. I am sure I read somewhere 8 seats per row was Boeing's original design.

Yes JAL is 2-4-2 in their 787. ANA were as well but have changed to 3-3-3. My understanding is that while 8 abreast was what Boeing designed it for, the reality is that it's not economical in this configuration and hence pretty much all customers have installed 9 abreast seating in economy.

Quote: Nareed

I think JAL also offers 8-abreast seating on the 787. I am sure I read somewhere 8 seats per row was Boeing's original design.

You are correct. JAL uses 2-4-2 on all of it's Dreamliners. But JAL also packs 500 people onto a B777-300 for some short haul domestic routes. United, American, Aeromexico, and LAN all uses 3-3-3 on their Dreamliners.

All Nippon Airlines (ANA) is the launch customer and also the largest operator of the Boeing 787-8. They fly some planes with 2-4-2 and others with 3-3-3

Boeing has to design a modern widebody for 9 across. It's the airlines who can choose to fit only 8 across.

Quote: Pacomartin

You are correct. JAL uses 2-4-2 on all of it's Dreamliners.

Good. I hate to think I'd hallucinated it :)

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But JAL also packs 500 people onto a B777-300 for some short haul domestic routes.

They did that with the 747, too. But packing the plane in short flights is much different from mid and long haul flights.

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All Nippon Airlines (ANA) is the launch customer and also the largest operator of the Boeing 787-8. They fly some planes with 2-4-2 and others with 3-3-3

Boeing has to design a modern widebody for 9 across. It's the airlines who can choose to fit only 8 across.

I know in the end the airlines have the final word. For all their accomplishments, neither Boeing nor Airbus run airlines, yet the manufacturers are the ones trying harder to improve conditions in economy. That's why I love Bombardier's C-Series. The idea of making the dreaded middle seat wider has much merit.

I heard a story about the stupidest connection ever.

So this guy in Hermosillo had to get to Saltillo. He flew from Hermosillo to Monterrey, then to Mex City, and thence to Saltillo. The trip took all day.

What makes this stupid is that 1) he could as easily have flown from Hermosillo to MEX, but in particular 2) Saltillo is one hour's drive from Monterrey. He could have rented a car, or taken a bus, and spared himself several hours of waiting around in airports.

Quote: Nareed

Saltillo is one hour's drive from Monterrey. He could have rented a car, or taken a bus, and spared himself several hours of waiting around in airports.

http://ticket.gruposenda.com/#

They even have a bus leaving directly from Monterrey airport to Saltillo so you are not even required to go to downtown Monterrey first. It's about 100 km.

Quote: Pacomartin

They even have a bus leaving directly from Monterrey airport to Saltillo so you are not even required to go to downtown Monterrey first. It's about 100 km.

Yup. That's part of what makes it the stupidest connection ever.

Though in the unknown man's defense perhaps 1) he likes to travel and/or hang around in airports or 2) otherwise he'd have spent that time working :)

As to 2), when traveling on business I prefer a late return, as otherwise I have to show up at the office.

Quote: Nareed

Though in the unknown man's defense perhaps 1) he likes to travel and/or hang around in airports or 2) otherwise he'd have spent that time working :)

A third problem which applies more to US travel, is there are massive penalties for what are known as "open jaw" tickets. You land in one airport and return from or to another airport. So he may have had a decent return ticket from Saltillo, but his fare wouldn't apply if he flew to Monterrey.

In the USA that policy often results in absolutely ridiculous results. If for instance a man is flying from Norfolk VA to LAX. Because Norfolk is under 2 million passengers a year, they have no flights further than Houston. So if you book on United, you must fly through one of their four hub airports.


nonstop 2,371 miles
Via IAD 2,445 mi
Via ORD 2,461 mi
Via IAH 2,580 mi
Via EWR 2,738 mi


Let's say on the return trip they book you through IAD (Washington Dulles) and it suddenly occurs to you that you could take care of some business in Washington, and make your way back the 157 miles to Norfolk via rental car or catch a ride with a co-worker. Logically you figure why would the airline care since you paid for the ticket anyway, and they might even resell it and make double.

But even if you only have carry on luggage the airline threatens to watch if you leave, and will prosecute you for fraud for leaving early. I'm not kidding, as I have known a number of cases where someone tried to leave early.

BTW, I finally saw Up in the Air where George Clooney gets his 10 million mile membership, but loses his soul. We had people at work get their million mile card. I bet that is damn difficult to do on domestic trips in Mexico.
PHOTO: Tom Stuker becomes first frequent flyer to pass 10 million miles, United celebrates on Jul 11, 2011

Quote: Pacomartin

So he may have had a decent return ticket from Saltillo, but his fare wouldn't apply if he flew to Monterrey.

Could be.

Truth is I've never taken a connecting flight in Mexico at all. Odds are I never will. It's not just that MEX is the hub for every Mexican airline that has ever existed (except for a short-lived low cost and for Viva), but also the geography of the country doesn't lend itself to requiring a connection when departing MEX, and that other than business I don't really travel within Mexico.

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But even if you only have carry on luggage the airline threatens to watch if you leave, and will prosecute you for fraud for leaving early. I'm not kidding, as I have known a number of cases where someone tried to leave early.

How about missing the flight? Go elsewhere, check carefully when boarding starts, wait some more, and show up at the gate after it's pushed back. Ask the gate agent a couple of questions, then inform them you'd be better off writing off the ticket and driving home :)

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We had people at work get their million mile card. I bet that is damn difficult to do on domestic trips in Mexico.

More like impossible, in no small part because only Aeromexico has a miles-based reward program.

I hear in the US airlines are moving towards a revenue-based system rather than counting miles flown.

Quote: Pacomartin

A third problem which applies more to US travel, is there are massive penalties for what are known as "open jaw" tickets. You land in one airport and return from or to another airport.

I sell a lot of open Jaws and often there is no massive penalty
One of the most common open jaws I book is outbound IND-ORD-PEK. Return BOM-EWR-IND.
UA looks at this as a open jaw but its still roundtrip from the USA to Asia and back so the passenger gets the RT Asia fare
UA generally give a pretty good deal on this type of open jaw
DL on the other hand does not. IND to China and India to IND, if booked on DL, probably two expensive one way tickets

Quite likely he was doing a status/mileage run to cheaply Aquire elite status in the airlines loyalty program. I know people who do this all the time. Had a story of one guy going Melbourne-Sydney-Alice Springs-Sydney-Melbourne on a Saturday and repeated in the next day. Apparently he got a few strange looks when the plane turned around in Alice Springs and he plonked himself down in the same seat he had gotten up from 45 minutes earlier.