Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

You continue to hold unto this idea that somehow Jesus was not still both fully human and fully divine on the Cross.

You have it backwards. I said he was fully
aware, and also fully aware of
the plan of rising from the dead.
No sacrifice. A sacrifice is when
you give something up you can't
get back. You understand that
completely, you just won't admit
it. What Jesus/god went thru was
an ordeal, there was no sacrifice
involved. That idea was cooked up
long after he died when the greatly
embellished stories were invented.

Quote: aceofspades

Are you equating the Bible to a library

All the books in the OT and NT
were once a library. In the last
century BC the Jews chose what
they wanted and put them in
a book. Ditto in the 4th century
with the NT. Of course it's meant
to be read as a book, it's why
the chapters are arranged as
they are. Revelations is not
the first book for a reason.

Quote: aceofspades

What does that even mean?

Are you equating the Bible to a library and that each book in the Bible is a separate book in the library?

Yes!

Quote:

Are there any instructions from God on how to read the Bible or are all instructions given to others by man?

Another thing to keep in mind about the Bible is that it didn't drop down from the Heavens on golden plates or was dictated directly from God to one person. It was put together by the Church. The Church comes before the Bible so the Church is the one who can help guide you on how to read it.

Quote: Evenbob

You have it backwards. I said he was fully
aware, and also fully aware of
the plan of rising from the dead.

Putting aside that I think you definition of sacrifice is a little wonky. You keep dodging the question about what knowledge you get from faith. I am aware that I will live forever (as are you in some different ways) does that mean since we are fully aware that we cannot sacrifice anything? If the soldier who charges the hill is fully aware that he will live forever in Heaven does that mean he never sacrificed?

Quote: Evenbob

All the books in the OT and NT
were once a library. In the last
century BC the Jews chose what
they wanted and put them in
a book. Ditto in the 4th century
with the NT. Of course it's meant
to be read as a book, it's why
the chapters are arranged as
they are. Revelations is not
the first book for a reason.

Bob do you know when those chapters and verse numbers were added to the Bible?

Now you say he was fully aware that he was both God and man had and all he had to go on was faith? That's fine, if he knew he was God and man he would have super faith, if he even had an inkling of God's plan for him he would have super faith then it would go exactly as planned. Therefore there was no sacrifice. Also you never ever explain the sacrifice you just keep putting it on me that I don't know what a sacrifice is. You'll never tell me what the sacrifice was because you have no idea what it was.

Quote: Evenbob

Now you say he was fully aware that he was both God and man had and all he had to go on was faith? That's fine, if he knew he was God and man he would have super faith, if he even had an inkling of God's plan for him he would have super faith then it would go exactly as planned. Therefore there was no sacrifice. Also you never ever explain the sacrifice you just keep putting it on me that I don't know what a sacrifice is. You'll never tell me what the sacrifice was because you have no idea what it was.

I have already said many times that He had a perfect faith and trust in God, so we are in agreement there. I just want to make sure you realize this didn't mean some kind of knowledge of what was sure to happen in the future, like omnisence or ability to see the future.

The sacrifice is Jesus as truly God and man dying for our sins. To take the punishment of death we deserved for our sin. The innocent one who perfectly fulfilled the law dying to set us free. The incarnate God loves you so much that He died for you so that you could live forever free from fear or condemnation.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob do you know when those chapters and verse numbers were added to the Bible?

Around the time of King James maybe. What's the difference, New testament it's meant to be read as a book. That's why Matthew is the first installment, Matthew is considered the earliest written gospel. The books in the New testament were chosen in the fourth century mostly from their popularity. they were the most popular so they must be true. A ridiculous way to judge which were the best books.

Quote: FrGamble

I have already said many times that He had a perfect faith and trust in God, so we are in agreement there. I just want to make sure you realize this didn't mean some kind of knowledge of what was sure to happen in the future, like omnisence or ability to see the future.
The sacrifice is Jesus as truly God and man dying for our sins. To take the punishment of death we deserved for our sin. The innocent one who perfectly fulfilled the law dying to set us free. The incarnate God loves you so much that He died for you so that you could live forever free from fear or condemnation.

But he didn't die! Why do you keep saying that?
Are you saying because he was pronounced dead
on Friday and came back 2 days later fully alive
walking and talking and eating with his friends,
that's some kind of sacrifice? He gave up a weekend?

And it wasn't even a whole weekend, it was 36 hours,
Friday afternoon to Sunday morning is 36 hours. This
is not a sacrifice by anybodys stretch of the imagination.
And yes if he knew without a shadow of a doubt that he
was God and he was man it means he knew the plan and
had super faith in the plan and had no worries dying on
the cross. That's the only way this myth works. You
cannot have it both ways.

Now, if he had no real understanding or idea or grasp
that he was really God and man, if it was only a guess
on his part, that would be a different story. But no, every
Christian insists that Jesus knew exactly that he was divine.
He didn't just suspect it, he absolutely knew it for a certain
fact. So that erases all possibility of a sacrifice. I know you
understand that.

Quote: Evenbob

Around the time of King James maybe. What's
the difference, New Testament it's meant to be read as a
book. That's why Matthew is the first installment, Matthew
is considered the earliest written gospel. The books in the
NT were chosen in the fourth century mostly from their
popularity. They were the most popular so they must be
true. A ridiculous way to judge which were the best books.