Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

I don't know Bob but my rule of thumb is if someone is for burning books there is something wrong.

It's always something else you
blame, never the story of
the religion itself. My priest
friend quit because his seminary
teachers didn't instruct him
correctly, you said. Even though he was
number one in his class in every
subject, including reading and
writing Latin. Did you know many
of his books in seminary were
totally in Latin? How many of
yours were.

Quote:

The history of Abraham, Moses, and of course Jesus are clearly written as history.

That's like saying the Greek god myths
were written as history. The Bible was
written as collected stories. People
chose to read them as history, which
is a very big mistake. You can only
write history if something is verifiable,
and much of the Bible is not verified
by any outside sources. They're stories
carried down by word of mouth for
hundreds of years before they were
ever written down.

Quote: Evenbob

It's always something else you
blame,

Are you really defending the book burning?

Quote:

Did you know many
of his books in seminary were
totally in Latin? How many of
yours were.

Mine were mostly in Italian. Is there something about Latin books that make them better?

Quote:

That's like saying the Greek god myths
were written as history.

That is actually the exact opposite of what I am saying.

Quote:

The Bible was
written as collected stories. People
chose to read them as history,

Wrong, even a basic understanding of Biblical genres will show you that the stories of Abraham, Moses, King David, etc. are written as history.

Quote:

You can only
write history if something is verifiable,

Bob, you would do well to follow this advice when you are reading about history.

Quote:

and much of the Bible is not verified
by any outside sources.

false.

Quote: FrGamble

*EXCERPT* The Greek myth you mentioned is obviously written as one. The history of Abraham, Moses, and of course Jesus are clearly written as history. Those closest to those stories then and now know that they were true.

So, is everything written in the Bible 100% true? If you say no, then you are picking and choosing what to believe about God's word



Also, how do you explain some of these factual accounts from the Bible:

Quote: Matthew 21.18-19

In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he became hungry. And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.

Why would Jesus kill a tree? Maybe it was not fig season? Maybe the tree was sick? Jesus kills the tree because it did not have figs for him to eat - why didn't he just perform a miracle and revitalize the tree and have figs magically appear? Why kill the tree?

Quote: Deuteronomy 22:13-21

If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels[a] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

If the Bible is God's word - why do you not advocate for this practice? After all, if it is God's word, then it must be 100% infallible and to not abide by it is sinful

Quote: Exodus 4.24-26

At a lodging place on the way the Lord met him and sought to put him to death. Then [Moses’ wife] Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it and said, “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me!” So he let him alone. It was then that she said, “A bridegroom of blood,” because of the circumcision.

Why would God, after appearing to Moses as a burning bush, suddenly want to kill him on his way back to free the slaves? How did Moses's wife know to circumcise their son and rub the foreskin on Moses's feet? Why did he doing so appease God, allowing Moses to live?




and, finally:

Quote: Genesis 2:2

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made”

Really? God got tired? An omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being that supersedes all time and space got tired?

Quote: FrGamble

Are you really defending the book burning?

Are you really defending the witch
burning of your own church?
C'mon..

Quote:

Is there something about Latin books that make them better?

Harder. He says they lost a % of
students because they couldn't
learn Latin. But nobody cared
because there were so many
students wanting to get in the
seminary in those days. The
opposite of now.

Quote:

Wrong, even a basic understanding of Biblical genres will show you that the stories of Abraham, Moses, King David, etc. are written as history.

UhHuh. That's why even Torah scholars
are dismissing all the wild stories of
Moses as fiction. Because they're
really recorded history. All the fanciful
stories in the OT are recorded history.
That's ridiculous. You count something
as history if it can be verified with other
sources. For instance, there would be
a ton of evidence if as many Jews as
the Bible claimed wandered in the
wilderness for 40 years. There is zero
evidence, so its's an urban legend,
not history.

Quote:

Bob, you would do well to follow this advice when you are reading about history.

Lets put it this way. You can
call anything 'history', but if
it's not verifiable, it's not.

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false.

Lets just take one event. Noah's Ark.
There isn't the smallest piece of
evidence this story is true. Therefore
it's not history. Like the stories in
most of the Bible, OT and NT, you
must have a gigantic suspension
of disbelief if you're going to take
any of it seriously.

Ever watch one of the Thor movies?
If you didn't suspend your disbelief,
they would be dumb movies. But
because you suspend disbelief, they're
very entertaining. Try unsuspending
your disbelief when you read the
Bible sometime. You obviously have
it turned on in full force.

Quote: Evenbob

Are you really defending the witch
burning of your own church?
C'mon..



Harder. He says they lost a % of
students because they couldn't
learn Latin. But nobody cared
because there were so many
students wanting to get in the
seminary in those days. The
opposite of now.



UhHuh. That's why even Torah scholars
are dismissing all the wild stories of
Moses as fiction. Because they're
really recorded history. All the fanciful
stories in the OT are recorded history.
That's ridiculous. You count something
as history if it can be verified with other
sources. For instance, there would be
a ton of evidence if as many Jews as
the Bible claimed wandered in the
wilderness for 40 years. There is zero
evidence, so its's an urban legend,
not history.



Lets put it this way. You can
call anything 'history', but if
it's not verifiable, it's not.



Lets just take one event. Noah's Ark.
There isn't the smallest piece of
evidence this story is true. Therefore
it's not history. Like the stories in
most of the Bible, OT and NT, you
must have a gigantic suspension
of disbelief if you're going to take
any of it seriously.

Ever watch one of the Thor movies?
If you didn't suspend your disbelief,
they would be dumb movies. But
because you suspend disbelief, they're
very entertaining. Try unsuspending
your disbelief when you read the
Bible sometime. You obviously have
it turned on in full force.

So you're ignoring this thread now and
only posting on the the other one?

Quote: aceofspades

So, is everything written in the Bible 100% true? If you say no, then you are picking and choosing what to believe about God's word

The Bible means "Books", it is really a library. Everything in the Bible is the Inspired Word of God but there are fictional accounts such as Job and Tobit. There is a hymnal in the Bible called The Psalms. Revelation is obviously written in the apocalyptic genre which is symbolic. Like in the Library pay attention to what section you are in and the genre of the book and you can see clearly what it is. You saying that either the Bible is 100% true or not is like saying your local library is either 100% true or none of it is.

In regards to your other quotes from the Scriptures suffice it to say that you might want to invest in a good Bible commentary. The New Jerome Bible Commentary would answer all your questions.

Quote: Evenbob

Are you really defending the witch
burning of your own church?

No I am not, are you defending the burning of all your SciFi books?

Quote:

UhHuh. That's why even Torah scholars
are dismissing all the wild stories of
Moses as fiction.

Simply not true and a ridiculous statement to make.

Quote: FrGamble

The Bible means "Books", it is really a library. Everything in the Bible is the Inspired Word of God but there are fictional accounts such as Job and Tobit. There is a hymnal in the Bible called The Psalms. Revelation is obviously written in the apocalyptic genre which is symbolic. Like in the Library pay attention to what section you are in and the genre of the book and you can see clearly what it is. You saying that either the Bible is 100% true or not is like saying your local library is either 100% true or none of it is.

In regards to your other quotes from the Scriptures suffice it to say that you might want to invest in a good Bible commentary. The New Jerome Bible Commentary would answer all your questions.

And on what authority is one to determine what is "fact" and what is "fiction"?

Quote: Evenbob

So you're ignoring this thread now and
only posting on the the other one?

Do you feel like you have a better understanding of the Christian idea of why Christ suffered and died? Do you at least see why the Church calls what Jesus did for us the greatest of all sacrifices? You don't have to agree, you probably won't, but from a Christian perspective I think you have shown that you at least understand why we teach what we do.

Before all this diversion we were talking about God's existence in general terms. Do you believe an actual infinite regress is possible? Do you better understand, even if you don't agree, with the logic of agnostics and believers that it makes logical sense that some being/force/reality created the universe?

Quote: FrGamble

Everything in the Bible is the Inspired Word of God but there are fictional accounts such as Job and Tobit.

Yowza! So I want to get this straight. You are admitting in the Bible there are "fictional accounts"! I know Ace asked already, but how is one supposed to figure out which are "historical" and which are "fictional accounts'???????