Hey FrGamble!

Okay Bob, I understand where you are coming from. You don't believe Jesus could have done the things said about Him in the Scriptures. I do believe He did those things. You base your belief on the idea that no one can do things that are miraculous. I base my belief on the idea that Jesus was God. This is where it gets tricky for you because you have to believe the uniqueness of Christianity and the person of Jesus Christ is all because of made up myths, gullible people, and a forced conversion. However none of those things you have to depend on are true. Jesus is a real person who people, both friend and foe, knew at the time the Church was growing. He is a real person who billions of people still know today and have a personal relationship and experience with, His miracles continue today. People are not as gullible as you would like to be as evidenced by every other idea or institution that has ever been based on falsehoods or myths. You also have been brainwashed by bad history into thinking at anytime the Church supported violence or forced conversions. We have talked already about the Crusades being an attempt, horrible and failed attempt I should add, to take back the Holy Land that was occupied. The Inquisition had nothing to do with forcing anyone to believe but was only about those already Christians and it was the state in those complicated times that went to excessive force turning a religious inquiry into a political tool.

Quote: FrGamble

You base your belief on the idea that no one can do things that are miraculous. I base my belief

What you do is suspend your
disbelief. None of it can be
demonstrated or proven, so
you choose not notice all
that and believe anyway.

Quote:

He is a real person who billions of people still know today and have a personal relationship and experience with,

They might deceive themselves
into believing that, but Jesus
is long dead. Humans are
masters of self deception. Look
at all the people Jim Jones convinced
to drink the poisoned Kool Aid.

Quote:

His miracles continue today.

Only if you have a very low bar
for what a miracle is. My wife's fam
thinks it's a miracle their dads
fave song came on the radio
when he died. Low bar..

Quote:

The Inquisition had nothing to do with forcing anyone to believe but was only about those already Christians

Mostly well off Jews they had
forcefully converted earlier.
Here's how the scam worked. They
would go into a town, find the
Jews who owned the businesses,
and threaten them into converting.
6 months later they would come
back and ask around and of course
the town people would say the
Jews had gone right back to their
old ways. So the priests would
torture a confession out of them
and confiscate all their property
for the Vatican. It was the original
version of the Mafia shakedown. There
are still Jews in EU that have their
old deeds and are suing to get
their property back.

Quote: Evenbob

They might deceive themselves
into believing that, but Jesus
is long dead. Humans are
masters of self deception. Look
at all the people Jim Jones convinced
to drink the poisoned Kool Aid.

I don't know how many it was, was it over a hundred, if so I would be surprised. People are not as gullible as you think. However they are masters of self deception when it comes to their own flaws.

Quote:

Mostly well off Jews they had
forcefully converted earlier.
Here's how the scam worked.

The rest of what you say is pure lies. It is a tragedy that you believe it when objective history and facts show you that you are wrong. I guess you are giving an example of what self deception looks like.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't know how many it was, was it over a hundred, if so I would be surprised. People are not as gullible as you think.

Be surprized, it was 909 people
he tricked and bamboozled.
People are more gullible than
you can possibly imagine.
They are constantly looking
to trust because it's the easy
way. Trusting religion is super
easy because how can all these
people be wrong. It's hard
work ferreting out the truth
for yourself.

Quote:

The rest of what you say is pure lies.

I don't want to have this argument
for the 11th time. I'll find 14 sources
and you'll say they're all lying and
how can I be fooled so easily. It's
true, one of us has been fooled...

Quote: FrGamble

You don't believe Jesus could have done the things said about Him in the Scriptures. I do believe He did those things. You base your belief on the idea that no one can do things that are miraculous. I base my belief on the idea that Jesus was God. .

But that's just your opinion, it's
not supported by any provable
facts. You can make any wild
statement you like about acts
that break universal physics laws
and say some god is behind it.
No offense, but that's identical
to saying Superman can lift a
Sherman tank over his head
because he's from a different
planet.

Until you can demonstrate and
prove it, it's just your fanciful
imagination talking. I've read
serious Bible scholars say they
wish none of the supernatural
stuff was in the NT because
it makes the rest of it so hard
to defend. In other words, the
supernatural stuff is made up,
so how much of the rest of the
NT is made up too.

It is my belief based on my belief that Jesus rose from the dead. The proof of that is the growth of Christianity and the amazing devotion showed by His Apostles and disciples to share the Good News that He is alive based on what they saw. They gave up everything to spread this message and were all eventually martyred. The Good News was accepted by people because they too encountered the living Lord Jesus, as I have. This is what enables me to say that Jesus was God, it is not just some wild opinion I have. It is a personal experience supported by evidence of the change He has made in my life and in the world.

Quote: FrGamble

It is my belief based on my belief that Jesus rose from the dead. .

And that says it all. It's your
'belief', it's not at all a provable
fact. There is not a single eye
witness who ever wrote about
it, or about Jesus walking and
talking for weeks after he came
back. Urban legends take on
a life of their own given enough
time.

It is a belief based on evidence, both objective and personal. What are your beliefs based on?

Quote: FrGamble

It is a belief based on evidence, both objective and personal.

So you say, but never present. Any
'evidence' you have talked about
isn't real evidence, just theories
and opinion. Personal stories
are just that, stories. Crop circle
buffs and people abducted by
aliens have a million of them.

Quote:

What are your beliefs based on?

What beliefs. I state as a fact
there is no god. I see no evidence
for one, where is he. Come out
come out wherever you are.
I get tired of the games people
play with this. Well, there 'could'
be a god.. No, there really couldn't.
Too many people have never gotten
over being lied to about Santa being
real. It can't be true about god too..

Quote: Evenbob

So you say, but never present. Any
'evidence' you have talked about
isn't real evidence,

An ancient text about a real person that is more attested to by leaps and bounds of any other text we have and written hundreds and hundreds of years closer to the original events than any other history we have of the ancient world. Non biblical references of the time naming Christ and speaking of His amazing deeds. Apostles and early followers that after His death gave up everything to spread the message of His Resurrection and teaching. The miraculous growth of Christianity from brutal persecution to the largest religion on the face of the Earth. The impact that the teachings of Christ have had on the world. The testimony of billions of believers. The personal testimony of believers today, including myself. The miracles and lives changed by a living and loving relationship with the Savior. If you call all this not real evidence I don't know what to tell you. You might think it is not enough or that it isn't mathametical proof but to say it isn't real evidence is just silly.

Quote:

What beliefs. I state as a fact
there is no god. I see no evidence
for one, where is he.

Again all you have is your personal experience of not seeing God. Why is that evidence for you? Also you mistakenly jump from the fact that you don't see God into believing as fact that He doesn't exist. Why do you do that? Lack of evidence is not a reason to believe in something. I've asked you many times before if you were willing to try to seek God. Are you sure it is Him hiding from you or are you hiding from Him for some reason?