Hey FrGamble!

Quote: Evenbob

The Jews widely persecuted the
Xtians in the first century. Paul
was a Jew, why would he not
persecute them is a better
question.

That is not really true. Paul was a Pharisee and the most radical in regards to his persecution of Christians. Why do you think he did that if he didn't know all about Jesus or what He taught and did?

Quote:

Just pick
anything you like that people
believe. Google 'things people
believe that aren't true' and you'll
get hundreds of examples.

Can you give an example of something that billions of people believe and is still growing and has had the same impact on the world as Christianity?

Quote: FrGamble

Why do you think he did that

"There was persecution of Christians, especially Jewish Christians, by Jews because they were seen as disturbing the peace, which could lead to retribution by the Romans."

There you go, it was to save
themselves from the Romans.
Dig deep enough and you
always find the selfish reason.

Quote:

and has had the same impact on the world as Christianity?

Which impact. The years of
forced conversion, the
centuries of torture in the
Inquisitions, the burning of
witches at the stake, the
efforts of the Church to punish
people who made new discoveries
that went against Church beliefs?
Those impacts?

Quote:

I was at my father in laws memorial
in church a few weeks ago. At one
point the pastor says 'Roger is peering
over the fence in heaven watching us,
and he likes what he see's." I almost
let out a guffaw, but saw many people
nodding in seriousness. Then I remembered
these people believe they're going to
heaven with their current personality
fully intact.

I was reminded that all god religions
have that in common. Fear of death
is their main motivator, they talk about
death all the time. They're obsessed
with it. If you're not, it's tough to be
around them much. Soooo depressing
and non productive.

No comment on this must mean you
agree with me.

Quote: Evenbob

"There was persecution of Christians, especially Jewish Christians, by Jews because they were seen as disturbing the peace, which could lead to retribution by the Romans."

There you go, it was to save
themselves from the Romans.
Dig deep enough and you
always find the selfish reason.

Dig a little deeper.

Quote:

Which impact.

The formation of Western Civilization

Quote: FrGamble

Dig a little deeper.

Why. The motivation for such
acts is always rooted is self
preservation. The Xtion Jews
in the eyes of Rome were
still Jews, Rome didn't see
a difference. So if the Xtian
Jews were causing disturbances,
the regular Jews had to stop
them or all the Jews would be
punished. That's a heck of a
motivator for shutting the Xtian
Jews down. I'm sure the Roman
leader told the head Jews to
control their people or Rome
would start rolling heads. Paul
was an educated Jew who could
read and write Greek, you wouldn't
have to tell him twice.

So you think that Paul, who was a Pharisee and loved his Jewish faith, would turn without questioning against other Jews because Gentile and pagan Roman oppressors told him to? Think about it.

Quote: FrGamble

So you think that Paul

I don't think anything about it.
Persecuting trouble making
Xtians was widespread in his
time, why would he not persecute
people who were making trouble
for good Jews is the better question.
I don't think you fully understand
the political climate of the time.
Ehrman says nobody knows the
real reason why Paul did it, he
never says. So all we have, like
the rest of the NT, is pure speculation.

And you ignore the Mary question.
She's barely mentioned in the NT,
then much later she's lifted to a
rank almost as high as Jesus in the
eyes of the Church. What's the point
of scripture it you're just going to
do what you want anyway. If Mary
is so important why is she totally
ignored by Protestants.

Quote: Evenbob

I don't think you fully understand
the political climate of the time.

I don't think you fully understand the relationship between the Romans or the Gentile world in general and Jews. There was nothing Paul or any of the Pharisees or other Jewish religious leaders at the time would ever do to appease or help Rome. They persecuted Christians because they knew what Jesus taught, claimed, and did.

Quote:

If Mary
is so important why is she totally
ignored by Protestants.

That is a good question that you should ask a Protestant. Mary is the mother of God. Jesus like any good Jew or good person loved His mother and honored her greatly. Shouldn't those who claim to follow Christ do the same?

Quote: FrGamble

That is a good question that you should ask a Protestant.

I have asked them and they
say Mary is barely mentioned
in the NT, why would they
make her an important
figure if the gospels don't.

Quote:

Jesus like any good Jew or good person loved His mother and honored her greatly.

Where does it say this. The
only thing I could fine where
he had any interaction with
her was at the cross, where
he says "Mother, behold your
son." Which frankly seems a
little harsh and unfeeling.
He could have said goodbye,
I love you, I'm sorry. What
he did say is cold and unfeeling.

I don't get why it's needed to
venerate her. The myth already
has Jesus as the go-between
to get to god, why do you need
a go-between to get to Jesus.
Then you have saints you pray
to as go-betweens to get to
Mary. Seems a little silly and
militaristic to me. To get to the
general you have to work thru
all the ranks below him. Why
all the buffers.

Jesus loved His mother. In fact we could not love her as much as He did.

Read the Wedding Feast of Cana and the Annuciation and Infancy narratives in Luke's Gospel.

It's not militaristic but motherly.

By the way do you see know why St. Paul already knew quite a bit about Jesus. He was like you are now. He knew bits and pieces, lies and exaggerations, false teachings about Him and all about His miracles. When he found out he was wrong about Jesus he came to the Apostles to learn the whole truth.

Also I'm curious about if you agree with Ehrman that Jesus is the most important person in history?