Is Satan Real

Quote: Nareed

It would be impossible for anyone to be happy under such conditions, because not one word of your definition has anything at all to do with happiness.

In most of the history of the Church, does
anybody really think the clergy was one
whit concerned about the 'happiness' of
the congregation? Is that what their sermons
were about? Give me a break.

Quote: Nareed

You will fid yourself giving money away to the church, to charity, to the government, rather than to spend it selfishly on further course for your career or on "vile" material things for your family, such as vacations, tablets, cars, toys, etc.

I usually am accused of having on rose colored glasses, when it comes to religion my friend you have on very dark shades.

There is nothing vile about material things. Things that you sacrifice your own money to buy for others, especially your family are very sacred indeed. We all need vacations and some toys.

Quote: FrGamble

I usually am accused of having on rose colored glasses, when it comes to religion my friend you have on very dark shades.

Apparently not dark enough...

Quote:

There is nothing vile about material things.

You keep denigrating material objects, and dismissing nearly out of hand the levels of wealth the world enjoys today.

Quote: Nareed

You keep denigrating material objects, and dismissing nearly out of hand the levels of wealth the world enjoys today.

I don't think I am. I also don't think you mean to objectify happiness by tying it to material things and idolizing wealth either but it sounds to me like you are. I chalk it up to our different worldviews and give you the benefit of the doubt. The easiest way to disagree with someone is often reductio ad absurdum so I try to fight that temptation when I can.

Quote: FrGamble

I don't think I am.

I think you are.

Quote:

I also don't think you mean to objectify happiness by tying it to material things and idolizing wealth either but it sounds to me like you are.

I'm not. But pursuing values requires the means to do so. Some of these means are innate, some aren't. The latter tend to cost money. Someone like my FB "friend" who loves riding horses, would find it extremely hard to pursue that value without the money to pay for horses, lessons, trips to competitions, etc. No doubt she could find some way, but nowhere near the level she currently enjoys. Likewise I'd find it harder to learn history were I not able to afford a subscription to Audible, and the means to play back the books and lectures I get from it.

But happiness is not a matter of having money or accumulating "stuff." It does involve accumulating the right kind of "stuff" that helps one's life and values: food, shelter, books, movies, transportation, clothes, makeup, exercise gear, cooking utensils. See, do you think I'd like a $3,000 cut crystal measuring cup with a gold handle? Say rather than a $5 heat-resistant mass-produced one? No. I wouldn't be able to use the former one at all. It would have no value. Really, can you see me putting unflavored gelatin in it and sticking it in the microwave?

I wonder if we could deepen this discussion by thinking of values that universally bring happiness to every person regardless if they think horses or hockey is the source of their happiness. Do people's values for example change. If God forbid it become physically impossible for your friend to ride horses would all possibility of happiness be ended in their life?

Quote: FrGamble

I wonder if we could deepen this discussion by thinking of values that universally bring happiness to every person

When did the Church become concerned with
if the congregation is happy or not? I don't
remember anyone attaining sainthood because
he made people happy, or he dispensed
good vibes. Did Jesus address being happy? I
don't remember it if he did.

Quote: Jesus

"I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete." (John 15:11)

Quote: FrGamble

Joy and happiness are not the same thing.

'A dictionary definition of happiness is “a state of well-being". The definition of the word “rejoice,” from which our word “joy” comes, is “to feel a great delight.”

Joy and happiness are not interchangeable.
Happiness is a lasting emotion, joy is a
sporadic one, it comes and goes.

Okay then read the Beatitudes, Matthew 5:1-12.