Merry Christmas!

I'm sorry to say it but your so called fact is just an ignorant opinion of yours. I know those faithful people and they hold their crucifixes as a remembrance of Christ's loving sacrifice. They don't need them to pray, they are only a help. Just like the picture of your grandma is a help to remember her. I understand you are frustrated and it is hard to let go of preconceived notions that you might have held onto for a long time or have been taught since childhood, but you are simply wrong when it comes to the Catholic Church and what you perceive as idolatry.

Quote: FrGamble

but you are simply wrong when it comes to the Catholic Church and what you perceive as idolatry.

But it doesn't look like I'm wrong to
those of us on the outside. When
I see that old lady with a crucifix in a
death grip in her outreaching hands,
while she mutters prayers to herself,
that's exactly what the pagans did.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,
etc..

The catholic church I was taken to as a child (and most others I have seen), have three statues:


Jesus on the cross in the middle
Mary to his left
Joseph to his right

People entering and exiting the church would all genuflect before either the statue of Mary or Joseph (depending on which entrance to the church they came in) and say either the Hail Mary or some prayer to Joseph I never learned — if there is only one true "God", why are Catholics praying to statues of Mary and Joseph?

Quote: aceofspades

why are Catholics praying to statues of Mary and Joseph?

This subject really ticks Catholics off.
Even in articles on the net, they call
you names if you suggest this is idol
worship. Of course it is, it looks just
like pagans worshiping their idols.

The Catholic explanation is like the
the old lady who claims she's not
an alcoholic because alcohol to her
is medicine. Of course she's an
alcoholic, you can't change something
by calling it something else.

The Church is masterful at this. They
take everything heinous in their past
and twist and spin it into something
good, or at least play it down to such a
degree that it's just blip on the screen.

Quote: aceofspades

People entering and exiting the church would all genuflect before either the statue of Mary or Joseph (depending on which entrance to the church they came in) and say either the Hail Mary or some prayer to Joseph I never learned — if there is only one true "God", why are Catholics praying to statues of Mary and Joseph?

Many histories of Christianity draw a comparison between the cult of Jesus and the cult of the saints (including in both cases the keeping of relics*), and the old pagan cult of the Greco-Roman pantheon.

There are many similarities, such as statues and/or icons, offerings and sacrifices (though in radically different forms), rituals, amulets and so on. What I'm less sure of is how prevalent this was in the beginning. By "the beginning" I mean after Constantine made Christianity legal and favored. Prior to this it remained a relatively small and defiant cult.

* About relics, it's been said there are enough pieces of the true cross to build a fleet of ships.

When Catholics come into a Church they genuflect to the Tabernacle and not to any of the statues. When Catholics or any Christian for that matter ask you or someone to pray for them, they are not praying to you or that person. They are asking for your prayers to God on their behalf. If you knew someone who recently went through a similar difficulty as you, you might ask them to pray for you because you know they understand the challenges you are facing and can ask God to help you through them. When you see someone praying before a statue they are asking for that saint's intercession, they are NOT praying to the statue or to the saint. They are asking a friend to pray for them, like every Christian everywhere does. The statues or pictures themselves are only remembrances of these holy people. Nobody had a camera back then so these statues remind us of the person, they usually include a couple of symbols concerning their lives to teach and recognize the particular saint. I don't think you object to having pictures of your kids or other family members up in your house, it is really no different.

None of this discussion really ticks me off. It is a good opportunity to clear up a common misconception people have. The only thing that ticks me off is people refusing to listen and to continue to parrot their own misconstrued perceptions as if they were facts. Please believe me the Catholic Church is not practicing idolatry and I'm not trying to twist of spin anything, this is just the simple teaching of the Church.

Quote: Evenbob

I know for a fact that those old ladies
out there holding their crucifix in a
death grip in their hand, think that
it's a direct hard line link to the Christ
Jesus.

What is your source of this fact?

Quote: Wizard

What is your source of this fact?

Ask them, look at them. The Church may
craftily say it's something else, but go into
the old ladies home and see the crucifix
shrine she has in the living room, all
lit up. And how she kneels in front of
it, praying with her upraised arms.
To her, that's god. By praying to Jesus
on the cross she's praying to god. That's
idol worship, with which I do not have
a single problem. I just bristle when the
Church says it's not.

Quote: Evenbob

Ask them, look at them. The Church may
craftily say it's something else, but go into
the old ladies home and see the crucifix
shrine she has in the living room, all
lit up. And how she kneels in front of
it, praying with her upraised arms.
To her, that's god. By praying to Jesus
on the cross she's praying to god. That's
idol worship, with which I do not have
a single problem. I just bristle when the
Church says it's not.

I think your interpretation of their motives doesn't constitute "fact." Maybe holding a crucifix is just an aid to get her in the right mood to pray.

Quote: Wizard

I think your interpretation of their motives doesn't constitute "fact." Maybe holding a crucifix is just an aid to get her in the right mood to pray.

I chuckled out loud, ya got me. Praying to her
big home crucifix while holding the little one
in her hand. She's just warming up for the
real prayer.

I have nothing against idols, they've been a
part of humanity for eons. Moses didn't like
them, he ruined everything by making it one
of the commandments.