Merry Christmas!

Quote: Fleastiff

A pure concoction, an utterly non-existent holiday.

Don't all holidays start that way? If enough people join the bandwagon nobody will call it a made-up holiday 2,000 years from now. Who else is with me?

Quote: AZDuffman

Well, people celebrated Christmas for hundreds of years and now thousands. Kwanzaa was invented as a holiday before anybody celebrated it.

In other news, just got home from tonight's gathering. As a kid this was the best night of the year by far bar none. This year and so many recently have seemed more like just another way to mark time passing. I must be getting old.

So, like I said - made up 2000+ years ago versus made up in the '60s

Quote: aceofspades

So, like I said - made up 2000+ years ago versus made up in the '60s

Exactly. Christmas started out like Kwanzaa, the Christians trying to take the steam out of pagan winter solstice holidays. Hopefully nobody will ask me to defend this point, but it is likely that Jesus was born in the hotter months, specifically late spring or summer.

Quote: Wizard

Exactly. Christmas started out like Kwanzaa, the Christians trying to take the steam out of pagan winter solstice holidays. Hopefully nobody will ask me to defend this point, but it is likely that Jesus was born in the hotter months, specifically late spring or summer.

My uncle did a tremendous amount of biblical history studying and concluded Jesus was born early September (coinciding with the Jewish holidays around that time)

Quote: aceofspades

My uncle did a tremendous amount of biblical history studying and concluded Jesus was born early September (coinciding with the Jewish holidays around that time)

Good ol' Uncle Ace.

Quote: aceofspades

My uncle did a tremendous amount of biblical history studying and concluded Jesus was born early September (coinciding with the Jewish holidays around that time)

The primary axis of Newgrange in Ireland and Stonehenge in England seem to have been carefully aligned on a sight-line pointing to the winter solstice sunrise (Newgrange) and the winter solstice sunset (Stonehenge). We have a lot of evidence of festivities around solstice from prehistoric times, and it is not particularly surprising considering how important it would be to a primitive culture.

In any case we may not know when shepherds were keeping their watch at night, but we can pretty much rule out the middle of winter. It may or may not be early September, but it wasn't mid December.

The fact that Christianity adopted an ancient holiday doesn't bother me in the slightest. There are dozens of examples. Most pastors simply say this is the day we celebrate the birth of Jesus, and leave it at that.

Quote: Pacomartin

The fact that Christianity adopted an ancient holiday doesn't bother me in the slightest. There are dozens of examples..

The early Church stole blatantly and brazenly
from the pagans. Anything to further their
tyrannic agenda. Lie, convince, control. It's
all about politics, always has been.

Quote: Pacomartin

The fact that Christianity adopted an ancient holiday doesn't bother me in the slightest. There are dozens of examples. Most pastors simply say this is the day we celebrate the birth of Jesus, and leave it at that.

I was always taught that it wasn't that the holiday was adopted or stolen but rather that they did not know his birthday (bad depts of vital statistics back then despite the census) so they had to pick a day. At the time you were a Christian at considerable personal risk in Rome back then so such a celebratory day would draw attention. But the Romans had their huge holiday and would be so busy and drunk that they were less likely to notice the Christians celebrating theirs. And if they did they might be in a more forgiving mood.

Until a better reason comes for choosing the date in December I will go with that. The exact date matters not- the calendar was adjusted since by the Pope for all the missed leap years, and since we will never know for sure having it now makes a nice figurative end to the year with a week left over to relax.

In that respect you can say Jesus has done what no other entity has managed to do, slow the world down for an entire week. If the Padre wants to work that into a sermon he has my quit-claim on the idea to use as his own.

Thanks AZ I might just do that. Here is some helpful information I found on churchpop.com

The first record of Christians celebrating Christmas on December 25th dates back to the 4th century. St. John Chrysostom says that Christians celebrate Christ’s birth on that date not to co-opt a pagan celebration, but because they had good reason to believe December 25th was the actual date of Christ’s birth.
Here’s his reasoning: Scripture tells us that Elizabeth conceived John the Baptist after her husband Zachariah did his priestly duties for the Day of Atonement. That holy day usually falls around late September or early October. Scripture also says that after the angel Gabriel announced to Mary that she would conceive Jesus, she visited Elizabeth, who was six months pregnant. This means that Mary probably conceived Jesus around late March. Nine months later is the end of December.
Some point out that there was an ancient pagan feast on December 25th. While that may be true, there were lots of pagan feasts throughout the year – a Christian feast lining up with a pagan feast isn’t that rare and doesn’t prove anything about the origin of Christmas.

Quote: FrGamble

Thanks AZ I might just do that. Here is some helpful information I found on churchpop.com

The first record of Christians celebrating Christmas on December 25th dates back to the 4th century. St. John Chrysostom says that Christians celebrate Christ’s birth on that date not to co-opt a pagan celebration, but because they had good reason to believe December 25th was the actual date of Christ’s birth.
Here’s his reasoning: Scripture tells us that Elizabeth conceived John the Baptist after her husband Zachariah did his priestly duties for the Day of Atonement. That holy day usually falls around late September or early October. Scripture also says that after the angel Gabriel announced to Mary that she would conceive Jesus, she visited Elizabeth, who was six months pregnant. This means that Mary probably conceived Jesus around late March. Nine months later is the end of December.
Some point out that there was an ancient pagan feast on December 25th. While that may be true, there were lots of pagan feasts throughout the year – a Christian feast lining up with a pagan feast isn’t that rare and doesn’t prove anything about the origin of Christmas.

If Jesus was begotten by God, who's to say the human rules of gestation applied?