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Quote: Gandler

That already happens. Voter fraud through mail in ballots is easy to catch and usually gets prosecuted.

The most common are people sending more than one ballot or attempting to vote by mail and then in person (or in person multiple times through early voting then election day, etc...)

These are all easy to track and you create your own evidence that will be used against you.

The idea that voter fraud is a huge issue that never gets prosecuted is a fantasy. It rarely happens, and when it does people get charged.

It's just not that big of a problem. Certainly not a big enough problem for archaic rules that are clearly designed to dissuade certain groups from voting (anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves).

My concern is more along the lines of filling out ballots for household members either without their knowledge or with their knowledge after the fact, though they'd otherwise abstain from voting. Even if they later found out, would you really have an immediate family member (for one example) prosecuted, especially if you normally wouldn't have voted anyway?

With the ID thing, there's at least an extra step there so that it takes more than zero effort. If someone says, "Yeah, just fill out whatever you want and I'll sign it," that's their vote, so that's fine. I'm talking about doing it without permission, obviously.

Even if I were to stipulate that voter fraud rarely happens, well, stores rarely get robbed compared to how many times they could theoretically be robbed. Why? They have cameras, safes, trained employees, it's well-known that most retailers don't keep much in the cash drawer---etc.

So, maybe some stores theoretically wouldn't get robbed even without these preventive measures in place, but certainly there would be more robberies and fewer robbers caught without them.

Therefore, I see enclosing ID as a reasonable preventive measure that the ballot was more likely to be filled out by the person or with the person's permission. While slightly in favor of mail-in voting (on the whole), I do think it's reasonable to say that it's also the easiest means of voter fraud.

Also, if you can't obtain and make a copy of your ID in order to vote, then you simply don't care about your vote enough to deserve to do it.

Quote: Mission146

My concern is more along the lines of filling out ballots for household members either without their knowledge or with their knowledge after the fact, though they'd otherwise abstain from voting. Even if they later found out, would you really have an immediate family member (for one example) prosecuted, especially if you normally wouldn't have voted anyway?

With the ID thing, there's at least an extra step there so that it takes more than zero effort. If someone says, "Yeah, just fill out whatever you want and I'll sign it," that's their vote, so that's fine. I'm talking about doing it without permission, obviously.

Even if I were to stipulate that voter fraud rarely happens, well, stores rarely get robbed compared to how many times they could theoretically be robbed. Why? They have cameras, safes, trained employees, it's well-known that most retailers don't keep much in the cash drawer---etc.

So, maybe some stores theoretically wouldn't get robbed even without these preventive measures in place, but certainly there would be more robberies and fewer robbers caught without them.

Therefore, I see enclosing ID as a reasonable preventive measure that the ballot was more likely to be filled out by the person or with the person's permission. While slightly in favor of mail-in voting (on the whole), I do think it's reasonable to say that it's also the easiest means of voter fraud.

Also, if you can't obtain and make a copy of your ID in order to vote, then you simply don't care about your vote enough to deserve to do it.

Its a pointless solution in my view to a problem that hardly exists.

Let's say I lived with an elderly family member who was not mentally sound and I intended to fill out their ballot for them? I would easily have access to their ID to copy, as I likley already take care of most of their affairs. So even in this example, which is frequently put foward, how would sending a scan of an ID and SS card change anything?

All it does it create an extra step that wastes time for most people and puts their identity at risk. And, in some cases is not feasible.

For example I use my military ID to vote. It is illegal for me to scan or copy this ID. So besides putting my identity at risk, to vote by mail I also have to break Federal law (and/or risk negative personnel or security actions against me).... This law was not well thought out at all.... So there is no legal way for me to vote by mail under the new system. And, I like voting by mail even when not away especially with COVID scares and backlog at many sites.

Which is kind of ironic, because mail in voting was originally designed for people who were away for military reasons, and when people are oversees the only ID they likley have on them is their military ID which they cannot use (legally, GA would accept but you Risk Federal trouble). So this law is just a vicious circle of trying to block out certain groups in GA from voting.

And, that's not even going back to the original point of how is it reasonable to not deliver food or drinks to somebody within 150 feet of a polling entrance? That is a large radius, especially in urban environments....

I just don't see how an ID scan would prevent fraud. People filling out ballots for members of their household already can get around this which seems to be the most common example brought up, and I just don't see how requiring an ID scan would hinder anyone who already has accsess to all of your documents and life info....

Quote: Mission146

I'm not really a fan of incentivizing whistleblowing either. In my opinion, requiring ID with the ballot is a reasonable enough prevention mechanism. Anyone overly concerned about the potential for having one's information compromised can physically go to the polls.

How do I vote????????????
I live on the road. My voting rights should not be taken away due to my lifestyle

Quote: terapined

How do I vote????????????
I live on the road. My voting rights should not be taken away due to my lifestyle

When did I suggest they should? The only thing I suggested is that it would be reasonable to make people include a copy of their ID.

Quote: Mission146

When did I suggest they should? The only thing I suggested is that it would be reasonable to make people include a copy of their ID.

Say I live in slab city
How do I make a copy of my lisc
I'm in slab city because I have no money
There is no copier in town and if there was, it wont be free to use.
It costs money just to take a shower. Many dont
Gonna take away my right to vote.
A lot of Vets live in Slab city.
Let me vote or prove my ballot is a fraud

Quote: Gandler

Its a pointless solution in my view to a problem that hardly exists.

Let's say I lived with an elderly family member who was not mentally sound and I intended to fill out their ballot for them? I would easily have access to their ID to copy, as I likley already take care of most of their affairs. So even in this example, which is frequently put foward, how would sending a scan of an ID and SS card change anything?

All it does it create an extra step that wastes time for most people and puts their identity at risk. And, in some cases is not feasible.

For example I use my military ID to vote. It is illegal for me to scan or copy this ID. So besides putting my identity at risk, to vote by mail I also have to break Federal law (and/or risk negative personnel or security actions against me).... This law was not well thought out at all.... So there is no legal way for me to vote by mail under the new system. And, I like voting by mail even when not away especially with COVID scares and backlog at many sites.

Which is kind of ironic, because mail in voting was originally designed for people who were away for military reasons, and when people are oversees the only ID they likley have on them is their military ID which they cannot use (legally, GA would accept but you Risk Federal trouble). So this law is just a vicious circle of trying to block out certain groups in GA from voting.

And, that's not even going back to the original point of how is it reasonable to not deliver food or drinks to somebody within 150 feet of a polling entrance? That is a large radius, especially in urban environments....

I just don't see how an ID scan would prevent fraud. People filling out ballots for members of their household already can get around this which seems to be the most common example brought up, and I just don't see how requiring an ID scan would hinder anyone who already has accsess to all of your documents and life info....

Does anywhere require SS card? Photo ID (such as Driver's License) and SS card are usually two different things entirely. I'd not support having a copy of the SS card being a requirement for anything on Earth except perhaps getting an ID in the first place.

In what cases is it not feasible? Not feasible compared to what? Voting on a specific day during a specified set of hours? Do you want that people should go door-to-door and just collect ballots/vote in person for other people? I don't know how much more, "Feasible," voting needs to be than to have a reasonably wide window to get a copy of ID and mail it in.

My suggestion to you vis-a-vis military ID would be to get a driver's license if you don't have one, or a non-operator's license. Or a passport. You're the one who wants to vote by mail, so live with it.

I can't imagine that anyone would be prosecuted for using a copy of Military ID in order to vote.

What point of food and drinks? I never said I agreed with that part of the law. My post was 100% about ID for vote by mail.

I think it would hinder someone from filling out ballots on behalf of a family member who is of sound mind and body without their permission. Again, I can't imagine that too many family members would actually pursue charges were they to find out after the fact.

Quote: terapined

Say I live in slab city
How do I make a copy of my lisc
I'm in slab city because I have no money
There is no copier in town and if there was, it wont be free to use.
It costs money just to take a shower. Many dont
Gonna take away my right to vote.
A lot of Vets live in Slab city.
Let me vote or prove my ballot is a fraud

If you live in Slab City, then your choice to live there is making it more difficult to vote by mail. Your, "Legal state of residence," might even be somewhere that doesn't even have the sort of mail in voting that would be applicable to this law anyway.

As I understand it, the land of Slab City is owned by the State of California...so if there is no copier there for people to vote outside of the State of California, by mail, and enclose ID...then my advice would be to petition the State of California to put a copier there.

Or, maybe just make it a law that County Boards of Elections are supposed to track everyone in the country down, no matter where they are and make sure they have the opportunity to vote completely free of charge. Have someone deliver the ballots to them personally and bring them back, but only when convenient for the voter's schedule.

Seriously, at what point is anything good enough or easy enough? You have a wide window to get the stupid thing mailed in and to make a copy of your ID...the cost of such copy being negligible. You can easily get a copy of your ID made for less than a dollar. Go to literally any library. Go look around on the ground for dropped coins (many pennies dropped intentionally) until you find enough to get a copy. Go to a mall and pull some quarters out of the wishing well, it's not even enough money (if you stop at $1) to be prosecutable in most jurisdictions.

Hey, I'll tell you what would make voting easier. Let's not even ask for a person's name and just take for granted it's whatever the hell they say it is. Voter Registration logs are also an unfair barrier, let's get rid of those as well. Why even verify that people exist?

Seriously. How easy does something have to be made for Liberals before they quit whining?

Quote: Gandler

I am not talking about inside. I am talking being in line or on standby outside (which now includes 150 feet radius from the polling entrance). If I am standing in line outside for hours or sitting in my car and somebody delivers me food that should not be a crime.

I will repeat. It is a polling place. Including the line. It is not your living room. Eat before or after.

Quote:

They are trying to make it more challenging to vote in urban locations to the point where nobody will be able to. And, they are now making mail in voting more challenging by requing sending copies of ID'S with your ballot. So you have a choice of standing in discomfort for hours or mailing in a ballot and potentially having your identity compromised. This is clearly targeting a certain type of voter.... And, this is meant to protect one party...

I have to be honest, I have never heard of "standing in line for hours." If it happens it is a most unusual thing. Liberals act like it is the usual thing to have to do.

Quote: Mission146

If you live in Slab City, then your choice to live there is making it more difficult to vote by mail. Your, "Legal state of residence," might even be somewhere that doesn't even have the sort of mail in voting that would be applicable to this law anyway.

As I understand it, the land of Slab City is owned by the State of California...so if there is no copier there for people to vote outside of the State of California, by mail, and enclose ID...then my advice would be to petition the State of California to put a copier there.

Why not just go to FedEx Kinkos or The UPS Store? How much catering to the lazy do we need to do?

Quote: AZDuffman

I will repeat. It is a polling place. Including the line. It is not your living room. Eat before or after.

I have to be honest, I have never heard of "standing in line for hours." If it happens it is a most unusual thing. Liberals act like it is the usual thing to have to do.

There are any number of medical conditions that are perfectly legitimate and might require a person to have access to food or beverage within a short time window.

In some jurisdictions, standing in line for hours is quite routine. Some of the scenarios are quite well-documented. Just because neither of the two of us has directly experienced it (longest I've taken is an hour beginning to end) doesn't mean it never happens.