Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

I readily admit that I am not so wise in the ways of science, especially when it comes to genetics. I simply like the idea, which I think is true, that we don't receive any further genetic information after conception.

Yipes, is that simply so utterly wrong.
Pathogens often affect the on and off switches for genes and affect gene repairs so that unrepaired genes are misread and might well be viewed as new information.
Also material that affects organelles particularly the mitochondria are sensitive to methylation of dna. So upregulating the mtDNA products constitutes new information.
Oxygen states affect gene expression and any substance such as nicotine tars produces genetic adducts that clump around dna. Cigarette smokers particularly effect their cervix dna.

I think the vast amount of information of which you seem to be ignorant is because you are so readily willing to accept the version you prefer to dwell on: Sperm and Egg unite and the Pope declares them inviolate after that moment despite obvious mishaps that take place.

Quote: Fleastiff

Cigarette smokers particularly effect their cervix dna.

Great. I though mouth, throat, and lungs were my only problems ><

I read somewhere that a smoker suffers one gene mutation for every 3 cigs he smokes. Long time smokers have been seen with as many as 50,000 mutations as the result of the garbage in cigs.

Crazy.

Quote: Fleastiff

Yipes, is that simply so utterly wrong.
Pathogens often affect the on and off switches for genes and affect gene repairs so that unrepaired genes are misread and might well be viewed as new information.
Also material that affects organelles particularly the mitochondria are sensitive to methylation of dna. So upregulating the mtDNA products constitutes new information.
Oxygen states affect gene expression and any substance such as nicotine tars produces genetic adducts that clump around dna. Cigarette smokers particularly effect their cervix dna.

I think the vast amount of information of which you seem to be ignorant is because you are so readily willing to accept the version you prefer to dwell on: Sperm and Egg unite and the Pope declares them inviolate after that moment despite obvious mishaps that take place.

I wonder which is greater my ignorance of genetics or your ignorance of Catholicism?

I thought Nareed already very adequately showed that biology and genetics is as she said, "messy". I completely acknowledge everything you say above even though I don't understand it. However, it still seems like even you are saying that things can be viewed as new information and things can get a little crazy in regards to gene expression. I might not even know how to properly phrase the question and it really is not essential to this thread, but here goes another try: Do we receive any genes or DNA from any other sources besides our mom and dad?

Quote: FrGamble

Do we receive any genes or DNA from any other sources besides our mom and dad?

It's very likely viruses leave genes behind, though these may stay innactive for long periods, or even forever. Still, they may be passed on to future offspring.

Would you consider a mutated gene as "new" or from "a different source"?

Mutations, BTW, are often the result of radiation impacting the genes, or chemicals acting ont hem. But, and this is very important, they can arise from "transciption" errors.

Consider: most of your cells divide several times during your lifetime. Some do so very often. Some cells create new cells (the way sperm cells are made, or white and red blood cells). Muscle cells have multiple nuclei, and probably among all our cells they undergo the most damage, and they're very abundant, too. In all these divisions and creations, we rely on the dumb biochemical mechanism of DNA and enzymes (we can do no other). Errors happen. If these errors survive to reproduce themselves, that's a mutation, too.

Oh, a baby conceied with a surrogate could have genes from their mother, father and surrogate, when considering maternal cells that wind up in the baby.

This thread has strayed pretty far from talking serpents.

Quote: s2dbaker

This thread has strayed pretty far from talking serpents.

That's a messed-up genome :)

Quote: aceofspades

FrG - I pose this question to you…

If you were raised by parents who were Buddhists/Hindu/agnostic…etc., can you say for 100% you would still have faith in Jesus?

I can't say for certain. If I was never able to hear the Gospel presented to me then I don't know how I would come to faith in Jesus. I do think that I would not stay Buddhist or Hindu once I really thought about it and examined it on my own. If I really never heard of Jesus or was presented with false teachings about Him or saw bad examples of Christians than I would most likely become agnostic.

Quote: FrGamble

I wonder which is greater my ignorance of genetics or your ignorance of Catholicism?

I thought you were complaining about my ignorance of cannibalism.


> Do we receive any genes or DNA from any other sources besides our mom and dad?
Yes, we seem to receive certain viral triggers and gene on off switches based upon grandparent nutritional states, just as many chemically induced diseases in mice show up only after skipping the first generation.

Quote: FrGamble

I can't say for certain. If I was never able to hear the Gospel presented to me then I don't know how I would come to faith in Jesus. I do think that I would not stay Buddhist or Hindu once I really thought about it and examined it on my own. If I really never heard of Jesus or was presented with false teachings about Him or saw bad examples of Christians than I would most likely become agnostic.

Thank you for your honesty FrG

My opinion is that religion and faith are a product of environment (i.e. most Jews are raised in a Jewish household, most Christians are raised in a Christian household…and so on). While there are exceptions, this seems to be the rule.

I think religion and faith, or lack there of, indeed begin as a product of the environment. However, when we are older and wiser and seriously look at these issues for ourselves things can change and become more real and important for us (or less so). That is why it is so painful to me that people seem like they are less and less interested in seriously talking about the meaning and purpose of life and if there are supernatural realities to our life because they are more interested in what Justin Beiber is doing. Apathy not atheism is the greatest challenge to faith in God.