Original Sin?
March 12th, 2014 at 7:05:31 PM permalink | |
aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 |
It is opinion…it is you and others who attribute miracles and the like to him. Why would an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being need a son? |
March 12th, 2014 at 7:08:18 PM permalink | |
aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 | I am unsubscribing to this thread as there is no logic herein and no way to change anyone's minds - rational thought can never win an argument versus faith Good night and good luck. Fr Gamble - although we disagree, I respect you as a human being. Best wishes and positive variance. |
March 12th, 2014 at 7:21:22 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
So you believe. I don't know how to say this without sounding offensive, so I assure you I mean no offense: can you put yourself in other people's frame of mind? try to see things as others see them? If God and Jesus were real, then, yes, some of the events in the Bible would be, literally, awesome. I can see that if I try. Of course, I can say the same of the Greek gods in the Illiad, or in movies about them.
The oral tradition was very important and widely used. Mnemonic devices were often used.That's why Jews to this day sing when reading the Torah in a synagogue. And why so manu ancient stories are told as poems. But it was used to pass on stories, not necessarily true stories. Of course mopst people believed most stories, from Gilgamesh to the Illiad to the Oddissey to the Norse myths to the Bible and even beyond that. All you can say is they were all orally transmitted.
I've seen people swear to "miracles" by psychics, Mexican medicine-men (it's the term used), astrologers and many others. For that matter there are millions who believe in astrology, numerology, dianetics, etc. The number of adherents to an idea, I've said this before, indicates its popularity. Perhaps also its usefulness, real or illusory in peoples' lives. But not it's validity. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
March 12th, 2014 at 7:22:48 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
The First Letter of St. Paul to the Thessalonians was written circa 49 AD. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
March 13th, 2014 at 7:30:33 AM permalink | |
Face Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 61 Posts: 3941 |
This bugs me. The Bible is a book of truths, right? I know many books that are books of truths, we are surrounded by them. I have a service manual for a second generation Honda Civic here, and anything you find in the book exists and is where and how the book says it is. My girl's probabilities textbook is here, and yup, everything in it is true. It can be proven, it works out as good now as it did back in the days of Pythagoras (or whomever). I am surrounded by non-fiction literature, from biological pieces about wildlife of the Northeast to histories of military aircraft to medical text books. Some of the info is recent; the military text is only from the 70's on. The medical, the math? Well, that stretches back generations, into the way back. To understand them, all one needs do is read. I can't think of a single book of truths that needs anything else. Read ~~> gain understanding. Why is it then that the "ultimate book of truths" requires so much rigamarole? That's not to say it lacks worth. Aesop's fables are valuable as well. Despite the fact they are stories of fiction, the lessons therein are very real. But "book of truth"? Is there any other book of truth that requires all sorts of special interpretations? Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it. |
March 13th, 2014 at 7:42:57 AM permalink | |
Face Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 61 Posts: 3941 |
Not to speak for FrG, but I don't think he can. I've tried to make him see, back when he and I first began speaking, and I think I failed. But, to be fair, can you do the same? I know I cannot see religion the way he does. I can try, I have tried, and I'll surely try again. But I can't, and I suspect you can't either. It's more than mental, it's "a feel", and feels are hard (impossible) to force. As an aside, I heard something spoken by Neil deGrasse Tyson that I think deserves consideration... "As religion is now practiced and science is now practiced, the is no intersection between the two. That is for certain. And it's not for want of trying. Over the centuries, many people, theologians as well as scientists, have tried to explore points of intersection. And anytime anyone has declared that harmony has risen up, it is the consequence of religion acquiescing scientific discovery. In every single case." Is there anything that can be said to combat that quote? Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it. |
March 13th, 2014 at 7:58:44 AM permalink | |
boymimbo Member since: Mar 25, 2013 Threads: 5 Posts: 732 |
Wow. I've never thought about it in that way. |
March 13th, 2014 at 8:22:25 AM permalink | |
boymimbo Member since: Mar 25, 2013 Threads: 5 Posts: 732 | I'm Christian. That said, I don't believe that there was a single Adam and Eve and I don't believe that people lived for 900+ years either before the Ark. With regards to Christianity, I always find myself asking why God sent down Jesus 4000 years after Adam and Eve, if God was perfect? Why do the people before Jesus have a certain path to Heaven, while those after Jesus' death had a different path? Fascinating. Anyway, that said, I don't believe in Original sin. Sin is in the eye of the beholder. Heck, Luther defines sin differently than the Catholics (in mind). By definition, for me, we are all born without sin, but our natural progression in development and thought leads us into traditional Biblical sin. We can't help ourselves. For example, I commit adultery (according to Luther) about 100 or so times a day. But I've actually only commited the biblical act of adultery three times, and that was well after I separated (but not divorced) from my first wife, and I don't consider that adultery, though FrGamble would disagree with me. |
March 13th, 2014 at 11:08:35 AM permalink | |
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | Passing on history and geography lessons requires a good story since such knowledge would be passed around campfires with the young and old having to have their attention remaining on the story line. With all our knowledge of vortexes we have no better instruction on how to escape one than in the Oddessy. No claim of reliance on the various gods was made. No institution sought to attach its coat tails to the myths. No con man had a vested interest in making the myths "holy". |
March 13th, 2014 at 1:11:55 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
I said as much in my post. Fortunately I can turn it on and off at will, and I know I'm "suspending disbelief" when I do it. In fact, I don't think anyone can read as much SF as I do without having this knack.
Should there be? Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |