Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

Ah, ignorance is bliss.

Whereas I've met droves of dumb as a rock
Christians. I wonder why that is.

Quote: FrGamble

So is the spiritual life.

Not really. Just do what you're told and
worry not. No worries about original thought, all
the thinking has been done for you. Got a
question, just ask. You can't think of a question
that the priest or minister doesn't has an approved
answer for.

No original thought in religion, no independent thinking? Who is feeding you this crap? Just because a football game has rules and out of bounds lines doesn't limit your original thought or independent and creative thinking.

Quote: Fleastiff

The problem that I see is that most of this religious doctrine is based on ancient writings, some quite fragmentary, made by people who claim God spoke to them in some manner.

Now we are all rather tolerant but it seems almost universal in urban areas that anyone claiming to see and hear God winds up in a rubber room. In a rural area things are a bit more tolerable because there is less harm and fewer funds available to build rubber rooms.

So why does time add to the stature of someone who "heard or saw God"? Didn't ancient societies have Thorazine?

While they didn't have Thorazine the ancients had no shortage of those claiming to hear, know, or see God. Yet this one man Jesus Christ was different. We've forgotten everyone who claimed such things before him and since. In the Scriptures it records a high priest saying basically, "Look we have seen these Messiahs before, and just like before if he's a phony it will fade into nothingness quickly, if He happens to be the true Messiah we are fighting against God and will eventually lose." Sure enough Jesus was the real deal, there is no other way I can think of how you can explain His impact on human history.

Quote: FrGamble

No original thought in religion, no independent thinking? .

Not in the Christians I know. All the
heavy work has been done, turn
your brain off and go to church.
What's there to think about? All
the rules and beliefs are laid out
in detail, just follow them. No
thinking needed.

Again just because the rules of chess have been laid out in detail does that make it something that turns your brain off and requires no thinking?

Quote: FrGamble

Again just because the rules of chess have been laid out in detail does that make it something that turns your brain off and requires no thinking?

You really think the majority of Christians
think productively about their religion?
I know quite a few, I married into them.
If they think about it, it's silently. They
never ever EVER talk about it. It's a given
in their lives, what's there to talk about.

That's a question I'm asking. To them, Jesus
died on the cross, they're saved, thanks a
lot, end of story.

Mind numbingly boring people. And heaven
is full of them? Please, send me to the place
Einstein and Asimov ended up. I'm begging
you.

Evenbob, I don't get it. If these Christians you speak of are never talking about their religion then they must be boring you by talking about something else. What about them being Christians so offends you if they never talk about it? It must be that they are talking about something else you don't like that has nothing to do with the Church or Christ or anything else that might be talked about in Heaven. They might be mind numbingly boring people but it sounds like that has nothing to do with their faith, which they never ever EVER talk about. Maybe if they did talk about their faith they would be more interesting to you because you seem very interested in this thread (which I am happy about by the way). Therefore based on your statements above you would love Heaven, where finally people have something interesting to talk about and I imagine you would get to talk with both Einstein and Asimov.

Quote: FrGamble

Evenbob, I don't get it. If these Christians you speak of are never talking about their religion then they must be boring you by talking about something else. .

You can't get them to talk about religion.
They were all born into it, had it fed to
them since they could talk, so what's their
to say. You're the one that doesn't get
it. All the thinking and figuring out has been
done for them, they have zero questions.
If you ask something about the Bible, they
will give the briefest possible answer. Even
my wife does this. You get the impression
Christianity bores them so much that it takes
effort just to think about it.

It's like this. My brother in law has two degrees
in law. He's a lawyer. Yet he never talks about it,
never mentions anything about it. He told me
once it's so boring he tries not to think about it.
It's the same with religion.

Bottom line is, you can't prove a negative. If god
existed, you wouldn't need some old musty book
to prove it, everybody would know it instinctively.
And they don't at all. The real answer is far more
obvious.

Quote: Evenbob

Bottom line is, you can't prove a negative. If god
existed, you wouldn't need some old musty book
to prove it, everybody would know it instinctively.
And they don't at all. The real answer is far more
obvious.

Nothing seems more obvious to me throughout human history than the fact we are religious beings. There is something ingrained in us to believe there is something beyond us, some hope we can't place our finger on, some explanation for life, existence, and consciousness. We long for a better more perfect world, yet this world is all any of us have ever experienced - where does that yearning come from? "Life exists get over it" will never satisfy us we have so many questions some we know we will never find the answer to this side of Heaven. Even faith is instinctive to us. We make more decisions based on faith every day than we ever make in our lifetime with solid proof. Yep, faith and God are pretty instinctive and obvious when you think about it.