Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

You haven't addressed the fact that the same atheism you profess can lead you to an beautiful vision of life and can lead someone else towards the greatest evils we have seen in the 20th century.

AS. CAN. CHRISTIANITY. Except you need to expand the time frame for those great evils to about two millennia.

I don't accept your premise that atheism is evil or can lead someone to evil. I'd like you to prove that, but I know you can't. You have only your gut, and a lifetime of indoctrination that has taught you that only a believer can be good.

Excessive consumption of Twinkies can lead someone toward great evil. So can binge-watching "Seinfeld." So can sacrificing goats in one's basement. What matters in the end is the character of the person.

I resent greatly the notion that religion has some kind of franchise on morality. In actuality, most human societies, large and small, have similar morals and taboos. This is because morality is another term for behavior that promotes group harmony and survival. You'll see highly "moral" behavior in a gorilla troop, for example, even though none of them has read the Bible.

Quote: stinkingliberal

Much as it sickens me to say such a thing, EvenBob and I are in pretty much total agreement regarding religion, though I express my views much more coherently, cogently, and eloquently than he does (and with far fewer spelling, punctuation, and grammar errors). So consider me as filling in for EvenBob as Resident Atheist until our favorite Trumper returns from the penalty box.

Why do you think Evenbob will return before you are suspended? Surely you do not believe in Divine interference!

Quote: stinkingliberal

AS. CAN. CHRISTIANITY. Except you need to expand the time frame for those great evils to about two millennia.

YES. IT. CAN. As you've said so could excessive Twinkies. However, you can expand your search throughout all of human history and you will never find the selfish evil of the atheistic governments and people of just this last century.

Quote:

I don't accept your premise that atheism is evil

Good, because I'm not saying that. Atheism is unreasonable and illogical but it is not evil. I do believe, and I think history bears it out, that atheism does not stand in the way of evil. I will go so far as to say it is nuetral. You can use its ideas to do good or to permit great evil. Christianity for sure has been used to do evil as well, but it's teachings do not permit it and after reform or a great saint arrives the evil is stopped, by Christianity itself. Surely you will admit that atheism in itself has no way to stop evil or for that matter to encourage good. You are good but you should stop pretending it has anything to do with your lack of belief in God.

Quote:

You have only your gut, and a lifetime of indoctrination that has taught you that only a believer can be good.

You sound so much like Evenbob here it is scary. That means that it sounds like you've lost and have nothing better to say except untrue ad hominem. For the 100x I do not, nor have I ever been taught that only a believer can be good.

Quote:

resent greatly the notion that religion has some kind of franchise on morality.

Religion does not have a franchise on morality, humanity made in the image and likeness of God with a conscience and reason does. Religion is a help for us to be what we were made to be. Atheism is not a help. I'm sorry if that offends you, but it is true. N.B. I did not say atheism is evil only that morally and philosophically it is empty.

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This is because morality is another term for behavior that promotes group harmony and survival.

Or it is a term that describes our innate goodness and something given to us that doesn't come from us. An objective true morality where things like group harmony are universally accepted moral goods.

Quote: buzzardknot

Why do you think Evenbob will return before you are suspended? Surely you do not believe in Divine interference!

I may be suspended again, but it's unlikely to happen before the eagerly awaited return of EB and his, uh, unique point of view.

I acknowledge that at least one of the secret mods (not Mike) pretty much has it in for me and tends to give EB free passes. I realize that my unstinting criticism of Trumpers may be anathema to any Trumper mods. C'eat la internet.

I don't think EvenBob gets a pass. Doubt anybody has in it for you. Babs bouncing me at WOV ever time I fire a shot at Mike. But that because " She rides for the brand ". I don't see how anybody can complain about any suspension, no matter why. The price of admission is FREE!!!!! Plus I mean a new VPN is as cheap as $1 a month.
I take pride when I get a PM saying Hi Buzzard when I have a new ID. Proves if anything I am consistent in my beliefs, F***ed Up as they are.

Quote: stinkingliberal

I may be suspended again, but it's unlikely to happen before the eagerly awaited return of EB and his, uh, unique point of view.

I acknowledge that at least one of the secret mods (not Mike) pretty much has it in for me and tends to give EB free passes. I realize that my unstinting criticism of Trumpers may be anathema to any Trumper mods. C'eat la internet.

Your criticism is humerous at best. I can't believe that kind of silliness would actually bother a thinking person.

Quote: stinkingliberal

I realize that my unstinting criticism of Trumpers may be anathema to any Trumper mods. C'eat la internet.

Political partisans shouldn't be allowed to moderate a board (one reason I took myself out the moment someone, unofficially, suggested me at WoV long ago). Not everyone who voted for Golden Boy supports him, but all his supporters tend to be rather rabid partisans.

Anybody Mike chooses to moderate the board is allowed to do same. What definition of moderate do you have ?

I take it that I have explained things and clarified my position to my liberal friend well enough.

Might I ask why you have chosen to preach here instead of to the multitudes at WOV ? Just curious,