The Violence From The Left Thread

Quote: SOOPOO

It’s hard to put that many stupid concepts in one short post, but you did it!

Show one example of ICE not viewing an immigrant as a person?

Show one example of someone applauding an ICE officer raping an immigrant?

Show one example of a protest against Israelis raping Palestinians stopping?

In summary, you don’t like the laws of our country that ICE is trying to enforce, so you just make up stupid shit. At least admit it.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/07/30/far-right-supporters-storm-negev-military-detention-center-in-israel_6705115_4.html
-Far Right Israel group protests the stopping of Israelis who used rape as a torture tactic on Palestinians-

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8dy8r7lq0go


https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/detained-immigrants-detail-physical-abuse-and-inhumane-conditions-at-largest-immigration-detention-center-in-the-u-s
-Mass amounts of sexual abuse of minors and women at a single facility by Officers and Staff, the right applauds this, you can go on MAGA corners of reddit and similar finding posts that say this is justified-


I do not like the laws of this country being twisted to turn ICE into a modern brownshirt force, which is what it is. Immigrants are treated as others. And, perhaps even more alarmingly, so are citizens that support them. ICE is being used to round up political opponents at protests. It is modern fascism. This period of history where we are rounding up people and about to invade an ally will not look good for the U.S. even 10 years from now.

Quote: Gandler

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/07/30/far-right-supporters-storm-negev-military-detention-center-in-israel_6705115_4.html
-Far Right Israel group protests the stopping of Israelis who used rape as a torture tactic on Palestinians-

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8dy8r7lq0go


https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/detained-immigrants-detail-physical-abuse-and-inhumane-conditions-at-largest-immigration-detention-center-in-the-u-s
-Mass amounts of sexual abuse of minors and women at a single facility by Officers and Staff, the right applauds this, you can go on MAGA corners of reddit and similar finding posts that say this is justified-


I do not like the laws of this country being twisted to turn ICE into a modern brownshirt force, which is what it is. Immigrants are treated as others. And, perhaps even more alarmingly, so are citizens that support them. ICE is being used to round up political opponents at protests. It is modern fascism. This period of history where we are rounding up people and about to invade an ally will not look good for the U.S. even 10 years from now.

I tried clicking on the second link you posted. My mistake. Takes me to a page asking me to fund resistance to ICE. I’m sure it’s an unbiased article….

After I made my post I realized my error. There will be a few people who are in favor of pretty much anything. My problem with you is really when you say ‘the right’ as if even 1% are in favor of rape or whatever crime you are mentioning.

The difference is I believe most Democrats are in favor of flaunting our immigration laws.

Let me give you a hypothetical. You are an immigration officer. You are aware that John Doe has crossed the border a year ago by swimming the Rio Grand. You have his present address. As best you can tell he has committed no other crimes. Should we enforce our laws and have him deported, or ignore our laws and allow him to stay?

Quote: SOOPOO

I tried clicking on the second link you posted. My mistake. Takes me to a page asking me to fund resistance to ICE. I’m sure it’s an unbiased article….

After I made my post I realized my error. There will be a few people who are in favor of pretty much anything. My problem with you is really when you say ‘the right’ as if even 1% are in favor of rape or whatever crime you are mentioning.

The difference is I believe most Democrats are in favor of flaunting our immigration laws.

Let me give you a hypothetical. You are an immigration officer. You are aware that John Doe has crossed the border a year ago by swimming the Rio Grand. You have his present address. As best you can tell he has committed no other crimes. Should we enforce our laws and have him deported, or ignore our laws and allow him to stay?

It's the ACLU, raising money to fight civil rights abuse is kind of their thing. But, they also have great reporting.

Yes, if somebody's only crime is crossing the border, deporting him is not fair.

You are posting in a thread called "violence from the left.". And, I am the one who can't say, "the right?", I need to caveot it with, "some, but probably not all or even most on the right," everytime I post something? Get real.

I do believe most of the right would be in favor of deporting everyone overnight if it would be accomplished in one night. What they don't realize is this would cause mass distribution.

I also believe most on the right are fine with force being used for deportations. I do believe some on the right are fine with raping inmates as a form of punishment. Now, you would probably say terrorists deserve this, (I don't agree,) but 14 year olds whose only crime was being dragged across a border by their parents don't deserve it. Normalizing rape as a form of punishment is never okay for me.

Quote: Gandler

It's the ACLU, raising money to fight civil rights abuse is kind of their thing. But, they also have great reporting.

Yes, if somebody's only crime is crossing the border, deporting him is not fair.

You are posting in a thread called "violence from the left.". And, I am the one who can't say, "the right?", I need to caveot it with, "some, but probably not all or even most on the right," everytime I post something? Get real.

I do believe most of the right would be in favor of deporting everyone overnight if it would be accomplished in one night. What they don't realize is this would cause mass distribution.

I also believe most on the right are fine with force being used for deportations. I do believe some on the right are fine with raping inmates as a form of punishment. Now, you would probably say terrorists deserve this, (I don't agree,) but 14 year olds whose only crime was being dragged across a border by their parents don't deserve it. Normalizing rape as a form of punishment is never okay for me.

No civilized society accepts rape as a punishment. I feel confident calling any entity that does uncivilized. Thanks for answering. I now know you do not care about the immigration laws of our country. You clearly stated someone who snuck in can stay. Seriously, do you think we should even have a fence at the border? Anyone to even try and check who is coming in? I mean, if you say someone who is clever enough to sneak in can stay, why not just let everyone in? Can someone just run past the interviewing agent and then say ‘na, na, na,na,na!’ I’m in!

Quote: SOOPOO

Let me give you a hypothetical. You are an immigration officer. You are aware that John Doe has crossed the border a year ago by swimming the Rio Grand. You have his present address. As best you can tell he has committed no other crimes. Should we enforce our laws and have him deported, or ignore our laws and allow him to stay?

This is like complaining that cops aren't enforcing written laws on everyone. Which they don't. It's absolutely true they don't enforce laws on everyone they come across violating some law.

They run across a serious criminal during a routine traffic stop they initiate an arrest. They run across someone continually violating minor infractions they likely arrest them.

I have no problem with that kind of system, including for illegals that come here and go to work.

You didn't do anything to keep a guy worse than that running the country. Voting for yourself didn't help. Why should we listen to you?

Also, I'm not the one handing out free benefits to illegals. I don't even agree with that.

Likewise, I have no problem thinking that Trump had illegals working in his hotel business, and he probably didn't go out of his way to do anything. Probably quite happy with them. I don't care what he thinks about it either.

Quote: SOOPOO

No civilized society accepts rape as a punishment. I feel confident calling any entity that does uncivilized. Thanks for answering. I now know you do not care about the immigration laws of our country. You clearly stated someone who snuck in can stay. Seriously, do you think we should even have a fence at the border? Anyone to even try and check who is coming in? I mean, if you say someone who is clever enough to sneak in can stay, why not just let everyone in? Can someone just run past the interviewing agent and then say ‘na, na, na,na,na!’ I’m in!

It's more complicated than that. About 50% of illegal immigrants came here legally initially (many are visa overstays or revoked visas.). So border security is only a part of the factor for illegal immigrants.

I didn't say anything about border security, I mentioned what to do (not not so,) with people already here. I think border security is good, this is different than doing mass checks of every employer in X city.

If I look Hispanic, do I need to prove my citizenship eveytime a federal official asks? Or do they need to prove they have reasonable suspicion I am here illegally?

But, yes if somebody is here and law abiding and only overrated their visa, dispatching 500 federal agents to hunt a city for them is not worthwhile.

Also, it is easier to track down people who came here legally and overstayed their visa than people who there is no record of (because where do you even start?). So most planned ICE raids have nothing to do with the border, but Visa overstays, so border debates would do zero to effect this.

I care about immigration laws, but enforcement matters. For example police in every state can arrest somebody and take them to jail for any traffic or parking violation. Should police start confining people on the spot for the most minor driving violation instead of giving tickets or warnings? And, there are countless other laws, the IRS can do a full audit every year on every American if they want, etc... Should all law enforcement always immediately use the most extreme enforcement mechanism they legally can? If they do across the board, I suspect you would not like the result. Stopped in a fire lane in the grocery store? Jail until you bail hearing. 1MPH over speed limit, jail until the bail hearings. Return submission, full audit. Grass too tall at your house, jail for 90 days. This is the world you want by saying LE should always do the most extreme enforcement in every circumstance for every level of law.

Quote: Gandler

It's more complicated than that. About 50% of illegal immigrants came here legally initially (many are visa overstays or revoked visas.). So border security is only a part of the factor for illegal immigrants.

I didn't say anything about border security, I mentioned what to do (not not so,) with people already here. I think border security is good, this is different than doing mass checks of every employer in X city.

If I look Hispanic, do I need to prove my citizenship eveytime a federal official asks? Or do they need to prove they have reasonable suspicion I am here illegally?

But, yes if somebody is here and law abiding and only overrated their visa, dispatching 500 federal agents to hunt a city for them is not worthwhile.

Also, it is easier to track down people who came here legally and overstayed their visa than people who there is no record of (because where do you even start?). So most planned ICE raids have nothing to do with the border, but Visa overstays, so border debates would do zero to effect this.

I care about immigration laws, but enforcement matters. For example police in every state can arrest somebody and take them to jail for any traffic or parking violation. Should police start confining people on the spot for the most minor driving violation instead of giving tickets or warnings? And, there are countless other laws, the IRS can do a full audit every year on every American if they want, etc... Should all law enforcement always immediately use the most extreme enforcement mechanism they legally can? If they do across the board, I suspect you would not like the result. Stopped in a fire lane in the grocery store? Jail until you bail hearing. 1MPH over speed limit, jail until the bail hearings. Return submission, full audit. Grass too tall at your house, jail for 90 days. This is the world you want by saying LE should always do the most extreme enforcement in every circumstance for every level of law.

Did you have Kamala Harris write that word salad for you? My simple point is simple. If you have identified someone here illegally, deport him. I may agree with you that ICE uses too much force in this mission. But the point I make is simple. You are here illegally, be it from swimming across, parachuting in, or not leaving when your visa expires, you should be deported if caught. You think once someone has done the job of getting here illegally, or staying illegally, they can stay.

Quote: SOOPOO

Did you have Kamala Harris write that word salad for you? My simple point is simple. If you have identified someone here illegally, deport him. I may agree with you that ICE uses too much force in this mission. But the point I make is simple. You are here illegally, be it from swimming across, parachuting in, or not leaving when your visa expires, you should be deported if caught. You think once someone has done the job of getting here illegally, or staying illegally, they can stay.

If somebody got away with stopping in a fire land to drop off a sandwhich should they be criminally prosecuted via surveillance footage? Why should they be allowed to get away with it, should they be allowed to benefit from their illegal Sandwhich delivery?

Quote: Gandler

If somebody got away with stopping in a fire land to drop off a sandwhich should they be criminally prosecuted via surveillance footage? Why should they be allowed to get away with it, should they be allowed to benefit from their illegal Sandwhich delivery?

No. If there is a law/ordinance against what they did, they should be ticketed. And if you are going to use childish analogies that are just so weak, I’ll argue with someone else.

Quote: SOOPOO

No. If there is a law/ordinance against what they did, they should be ticketed. And if you are going to use childish analogies that are just so weak, I’ll argue with someone else.

You are the one implying law enforcement should always use the maximum enforcement mechanism for any infraction.