Israeli conflict

AFAIK, Gandler has never supported the CSA or Iranian flag, but we know who has supported one of those. LOL.

Quote: Gandler

This is sheer delusion. The issue that matters today, is 100% of KKK members are Republicans, and 0 records of Democrats being members. And, the KKK is closely aligned with conservative philosophy.

Proof? Actually it is an unprovable claim. The kind made by liberal losers who cannot handle the KKK history of their party.

As for Byrd (who you are clearly referencing,) he was not a Grand Wizard, he was a local leader who briefly held the Exhaulted Cyclops slot for his local chapter (this is the title leaders of the chapter get, and since he founded the chapter by rallying a bunch of neighbors to join him...) And, he left the organization in the 1940s, and has been apologizing for decades for being a member.

Quote: Gandler

I disagree, it easily makes the top 10 scaled per existence time, because existing only 4 years, it has done insurmountable damage. Sure maybe less global effects than say the Mongolian Empire which had 200 years to raid, enslave, and seize land (and had the benefit of mobility.)

Not even close to top-10. What "insurmountable damage" did it do? It lost a revolution, which while very bloody in American historical terms it not among the top in world history.

Far worse would be Stalin and Mao in modern times. Pol Pot is way up there, too. Killed like 25% of his population.

Behind them would be Hitler and Nazi Germany.

There are too many African wars the last 40 years to count. Millions dead. Little news coverage.

You could add in ancient history, which I do not know as well. But we do know the Mongols were not fun people to show up on your doorstep.

You need to learn some history.

Quote: AZDuffman

Proof? Actually it is an unprovable claim. The kind made by liberal losers who cannot handle the KKK history of their party.

As for Byrd (who you are clearly referencing,) he was not a Grand Wizard, he was a local leader who briefly held the Exhaulted Cyclops slot for his local chapter (this is the title leaders of the chapter get, and since he founded the chapter by rallying a bunch of neighbors to join him...) And, he left the organization in the 1940s, and has been apologizing for decades for being a member.

Bottom line is Democrats praised Byrd, a former KKK member, until he died in the 2000s. The GOP shunned David Duke.

Quote: GenoDRPh

Bottom line is Democrats praised Byrd, a former KKK member, until he died in the 2000s. The GOP shunned David Duke.

The GOP elected David Duke to Congress.

Quote: AZDuffman

Not even close to top-10. What "insurmountable damage" did it do? It lost a revolution, which while very bloody in American historical terms it not among the top in world history.

Far worse would be Stalin and Mao in modern times. Pol Pot is way up there, too. Killed like 25% of his population.

Behind them would be Hitler and Nazi Germany.

There are too many African wars the last 40 years to count. Millions dead. Little news coverage.

You could add in ancient history, which I do not know as well. But we do know the Mongols were not fun people to show up on your doorstep.

You need to learn some history.

Let us then use your scale, at set aside what they were fighting for and only look at war casualties to scale damage.

What Civil War caused more deaths than the American Civil War? The answer is just one Civil War, the Chinese Civil War in the 1850s-1860s (around the same time as the Civil War, so also good for general tech level comparisons.) This had many more raw deaths (before scaling per capita) than the American Civil War. The number is disputed, and ranges anywhere from 20 million-100 million (though more commonly 20-30 million,) so let us say 30 million to be generous. The Chinese population was something about 500 million in 1850. 15% of the population died because of the war.

American population in 1850 was 23 million (however, this includes slaves, so this is not a great number, let us say 20 million as there were about 3 million slaves.)
About 650k died in the American Civil War. 2% of the population died in this war.

Now, 15% is larger than 4%, however the Civil War lasted 4 years compared to China where it lasted 14 years. (about 2 mil a year,) compared to U.S. (160k a year.) So scaling per capita and per conflict length, the U.S. Civil War was the most damaging Civil War in World History (and if the Taiping Rebellion is even a true civil war is another debate, but let us just grant it.)

Even if you do not accept my per capita and timeline scaling, it would be #2 by raw numbers (zero scaling.) So it is either #1 or #2, so not only in the top 10, near the top. And, this is just factoring deaths caused by the conflict, this is not factoring the causes and philosophies of the conflict. Now the Taiping Rebellion was instigated by some Christian extremist claiming to be the brother of Jesus and start the "Heavenly Kingdom," so this is not a noble cause either, and were extremely socially regressive (especially on issues of gender.)

I do not know if their movement was worse than the CSA, but it is close. But, what is not close, is the CSA is the worst movement in domestic history, and this matters the most.

So sure, let us be generous and say the Chinese Civil War of the 1850/60s was slightly worse, it is still the second worse in world history, and the worst in American history. So yes, very bad.

Quote: rxwine

She looks like an undatable single mom.

Quote: Gandler

Let us then use your scale, at set aside what they were fighting for and only look at war casualties to scale damage.

What Civil War caused more deaths than the American Civil War? The answer is just one Civil War, the Chinese Civil War in the 1850s-1860s (around the same time as the Civil War, so also good for general tech level comparisons.) This had many more raw deaths (before scaling per capita) than the American Civil War. The number is disputed, and ranges anywhere from 20 million-100 million (though more commonly 20-30 million,) so let us say 30 million to be generous. The Chinese population was something about 500 million in 1850. 15% of the population died because of the war.

American population in 1850 was 23 million (however, this includes slaves, so this is not a great number, let us say 20 million as there were about 3 million slaves.)
About 650k died in the American Civil War. 2% of the population died in this war.

Now, 15% is larger than 4%, however the Civil War lasted 4 years compared to China where it lasted 14 years. (about 2 mil a year,) compared to U.S. (160k a year.) So scaling per capita and per conflict length, the U.S. Civil War was the most damaging Civil War in World History (and if the Taiping Rebellion is even a true civil war is another debate, but let us just grant it.)

Even if you do not accept my per capita and timeline scaling, it would be #2 by raw numbers (zero scaling.) So it is either #1 or #2, so not only in the top 10, near the top. And, this is just factoring deaths caused by the conflict, this is not factoring the causes and philosophies of the conflict. Now the Taiping Rebellion was instigated by some Christian extremist claiming to be the brother of Jesus and start the "Heavenly Kingdom," so this is not a noble cause either, and were extremely socially regressive (especially on issues of gender.)

I do not know if their movement was worse than the CSA, but it is close. But, what is not close, is the CSA is the worst movement in domestic history, and this matters the most.

So sure, let us be generous and say the Chinese Civil War of the 1850/60s was slightly worse, it is still the second worse in world history, and the worst in American history. So yes, very bad.

You are looking at it incredibly narrow. By your standard we do not count the Holocaust because none are "war casualties." You ignore dictators who exported food even as the population starved. You ignore the worst of the worst to make it fit your narrative.

Quote: Gandler

This is sheer delusion.

Argue with the historian. KKK has always been affiliated with Democrat Party.

"In effect, the Klan was a military force serving the interests of the Democratic party and all those who desired restoration of white supremacy. Its purposes were political, but political in the broadest sense, for it sought to affect power relations, both public and private, throughout Southern society. It aimed to reverse the interlocking changes sweeping over the South during Reconstruction: to destroy the Republican party's infrastructure, undermine the Reconstruction state, reestablish control of the Black labor force, and restore racial subordination in every aspect of Southern life." To that end they worked to curb the education, economic advancement, voting rights, and right to keep and bear arms of Black people."

Foner, Eric (1988). Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution

Hillary Clinton hates black people with a fiery passion and wishes she could publicly join the KKK. Barack Obama also hates black people but he makes it obvious at least. His wife sure does. And Joe Biden was the most phony baloney racist that has ever been in office.