Should Trans People be allowed to use opposite sex bathrooms?

no pause yet Mission? ha ha

Quote: Mission146

I tend to believe Geno is correct as multiple local news outlets reporting on the injury referred to him as either ‘Boy’ or, ‘Male.’

except Newsweek, which article also said they can confirm nothing, however.

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I can’t guarantee that, however, as they may have been deliberately misreporting or might have been mistaken. News today is honestly irrelevant. There might have been no such injury

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and there may exist no two such named high schools.

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In any case, I am basing my statement on what the local news sources claim.

and I thought I didn't trust them!

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I’ve already stated that in one of my first posts on this subject.

Anyway, it could be relevant if we were having a locker room discussion, but this is an injury discussion. Therefore, it’s not a relevant distinction whether it’s a boy, transexual or even a girl, because literally anyone in the high school could play field hockey for this team.

At this the line has moved on my proposed bet that it will come out that it was a trans. If you want the 'not trans' side of the bet it's -20,000 . And I'll say no more, I've already said I was wrong about much of this.

Looking further into this, I had no idea Massachusetts had it common to have boys on girl's teams... teams that are not explicitly designed to be co-ed, that kind of thing exists about everywhere and is quite different. A team that is formed to be a girl's team but just allows males? Makes sense to Mass. people I guess.

It's not clear to me but it may be that many males play on such teams. Since they've made it wide open for the practice to exist, if the abuse of sending in ringers to try to win championships is not common, it would be because the athletes themselves just decline to participate in such a thing.

finally, I note this 'males can play' law was passed during the push for the Equal Rights Amendment. The business of allowing girls on Little League baseball was probably old news in Mass. by then

So looking more into it (putting aside the whole trans aspect for now, because I do not think that is relevant here,) it seems all States allow women to play on men teams if there is no women equivalent. And, many States allow men to play on Women teams (though ironically this has gotten less in the last three years, really since 2020 a lot of states have been regressing on this -probably due to people associating it with trans issues now-). It seems title IX protections allow women to always play on mens teams, but it is title IX compliant for States to bar men from women teams (this seems like a massive double standard.)

It seems like the justification is that title IX's intention is to allow women (historically underrepresented) more opportunities so they want to allow them the option to play with men when they feel comfortable.

And, ironically this is a policy that is regressing (many States were more progressive in the 90s and 2000s on this....) Now there are less states where a man can join a women team (even if there is no male equivalent.) And, it does seem like it is legal/compliant for States to ban men from sports that they deem historically female.


This is from an ESPN review of States breaking down the ban of trans in womens leagues, but it is roughly the same map as states that outright ban men from joining so it is a decent breakdown:



I should say specifically the light red are the ones that ban only men from joining. The dark red (maroon?) is a bit more nuanced. And, this is also a showcase of the worst ranked schools in the U.S. (where you would think they would have a higher priority.) Ironically the best ranked schools are the ones that people are saying are backwards (specifically NorthEast, Maryland and up pretty much.)

https://scholaroo.com/report/state-education-rankings/

Quote: Gandler

Everyone who has been in HS in the last 20 years knows that boys can play in the FH team in every state (and for whatever reason gendered FH teams are extremely rare so this means gender diverse teams.) Nobody has a serious issue with this minus some occasional local drama. But, the second somebody claims one of the boys is trans everyone loses their minds. However, the reality is, even by their own metrics, trans (male to female or even female to male) may be stronger than bio females, but are less strong than bio men. So saying that bio men should be allowed to play FH and cheering this while saying trans is a danger to the injury rate due to the increased average strength makes zero sense for a host of reasons.

(Quote clipped, relevance)

I think that depends on where you're from. I understand OdiousGambit's point, to a certain extent, just because of where I grew up. Let's just say that if a boy tried to make his way on one of the girls' teams, then he'd have ended up missing the season due to off-field injury.

Quote: odiousgambit

no pause yet Mission? ha ha

except Newsweek, which article also said they can confirm nothing, however.
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and I thought I didn't trust them!
At this the line has moved on my proposed bet that it will come out that it was a trans. If you want the 'not trans' side of the bet it's -20,000 . And I'll say no more, I've already said I was wrong about much of this.

Looking further into this, I had no idea Massachusetts had it common to have boys on girl's teams... teams that are not explicitly designed to be co-ed, that kind of thing exists about everywhere and is quite different. A team that is formed to be a girl's team but just allows males? Makes sense to Mass. people I guess.

It's not clear to me but it may be that many males play on such teams. Since they've made it wide open for the practice to exist, if the abuse of sending in ringers to try to win championships is not common, it would be because the athletes themselves just decline to participate in such a thing.

finally, I note this 'males can play' law was passed during the push for the Equal Rights Amendment. The business of allowing girls on Little League baseball was probably old news in Mass. by then

Newsweek are the idiots who have a vested interest in pushing the trans topic at every turn and talking about a High School level sports injury as if it's a national story. Also, the Newsweek 'Reporter' quotes random social media @$$holes and cites them, so that should give you some idea how seriously that person is to be taken.

Also, they said they couldn't confirm it. Did they say calls to the school went unanswered? No. Why? Because they never attempted to confirm it. They would have certainly seen that local news outlets referred to the individual as male, so consequently, would not have wanted to confirm it because, if they had, then the story would no longer fit the narrative they wanted and they would be pointlessly reporting on a high school level sports injury as if national news.

I suppose, in a manner of speaking, all of their teams are, 'Designed to be co-ed,' in the sense that any of them could be. The only ones specifically designed to be gendered would be ones in which there was a team for each gender. This person being a male-to-female transexual, while doubtful, could theoretically be relevant (even in Massachusetts) if there was a boys' team for the sport and he playing on the girls team instead.

(Quotes clipped)

Quote: odiousgambit

You've done an excellent job of finding that. I am flabbergasted. I can't argue anymore that the law was for girls to be able to play on male sports teams. I could theorize about it, but better just shut up. Congratulations, really. All I can tell you is what I wrote about things being so different then is on the money, take it to the bank.

Thank you, but it was actually very easy. Unlike the idiot from Newsweek, I'm 95% hack and 5% legitimate writer, as opposed to being 100% hack.

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You've taken me by complete surprise. For one thing the legality of the dude playing was laid out for us already and I accepted it completely, never doubted for a second he was within his rights. Wasn't the issue to me, so why look it up? Well, you hit the jackpot.

don't worry about hard feelings, if I need to be corrected then the result is I learned something. I respect a reasoned response as opposed to "move along, nothing to see here". Or the worst is proving your point and have someone dismiss that, which happens here. How would you feel if I read what you just wrote and then said, "nope, the law was made without being about boys playing on girl's teams". That denial happens here with the Lefties, some of them.

I do feel this story belongs in a Trans thread as boys on girls teams is a related issue. No, Ams, I don't regret posting it.

They loosely referenced the law in the Newsweek article. Also, operating on the assumption that he might not have been trans (before checking the local articles) got me to asking why would someone who was even possibly a male (and identified as a male) even be playing on a girl's team for him to even possibly be male. One of the local news sources referenced that boys could play on girls teams in the event there was no boys team; after that, it's just trial and error with Google Search to try to find the state-level decision that effectuated that. It did take three tries to actually find the text of the decision, but still, only about thirty total seconds.

Quote: odioiusgambit

I do feel this story belongs in a Trans thread as boys on girls teams is a related issue. No, Ams, I don't regret posting it.

Good for you. This is America.

You are free to make a complete fool of yourself in whatever way you want.

Not a trans person. Not a drag queen.

A…

*checks notes*

…youth pastor.

Macomb County church youth leader accused of coercing minor to have sex

Sure to be the top story on all right wing media, right?

“A straight man will not go for kids.” - AZDuffman

Quote: ams288

Not a trans person. Not a drag queen.

A…

*checks notes*

…youth pastor.

Macomb County church youth leader accused of coercing minor to have sex

Sure to be the top story on all right wing media, right?

It is clearly because boys and girls were playing sports together.

Quote: ams288

Not a trans person. Not a drag queen.

A…

*checks notes*

…youth pastor.

that makes him "a straight man"? ... where do you get that?

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Macomb County church youth leader accused of coercing minor to have sex

Sure to be the top story on all right wing media, right?

I guess you've never heard of a gay youth pastor. This is a case of failed due diligence ... a youth pastor must be carefully vetted

Quote: ams288

Not a trans person. Not a drag queen.

A…

*checks notes*

…youth pastor.

Macomb County church youth leader accused of coercing minor to have sex

Sure to be the top story on all right wing media, right?

Why only one? You can probably find two or three of these stories every day without even really trying.