Should Trans People be allowed to use opposite sex bathrooms?

Quote: terapined

At the Civil War museum in Richmond
This caught my eye
Medal of honor winner LGBT ?

I don't know this story. But, my guess is she wore men's clothing for respect and disguise. It was not uncommon for females to present as males to join during this period (and prior), and even if she was allowed to join as a female surgeon she probably wanted to wear the male uniform to avoid glances (so from a distance people think she is a man).

I highly doubt she was crossdressing for any sexual identity purposes. She was likley just cross dressing for saftey, respect, and convience (they likley did not make female medic uniforms, and it was probably far easier to get male clothes and uniforms while in the field and on deployments).

Quote: Gandler

Quote: terapined

At the Civil War museum in Richmond
This caught my eye
Medal of honor winner LGBT ?

I don't know this story. But, my guess is she wore men's clothing for respect and disguise. It was not uncommon for females to present as males to join during this period (and prior), and even if she was allowed to join as a female surgeon she probably wanted to wear the male uniform to avoid glances (so from a distance people think she is a man).

I highly doubt she was crossdressing for any sexual identity purposes. She was likley just cross dressing for saftey, respect, and convience (they likley did not make female medic uniforms, and it was probably far easier to get male clothes and uniforms while in the field and on deployments).

She certainly made the police suspicious
https://www.nps.gov/people/mary-walker.htm

"Her choice of profession and dress marked her for harassment and ridicule her whole life. In 1870, while she was in New Orleans, she was arrested because she was dressed as a man. The arresting officer twisted her arm, and asked if she had ever been in a relationship with a man (dressing outside of gendered norms at the time was seen as evidence of homosexuality). Dr. Walker was released from custody only after she was recognized by officers of the court. She was frequently arrested for wearning men's clothes, including her signature top hat. She responded to those who criticized her choices, "I don't wear men's clothes, I wear my own clothes.""

Quote: terapined

Quote: Gandler

Quote: terapined

At the Civil War museum in Richmond
This caught my eye
Medal of honor winner LGBT ?

I don't know this story. But, my guess is she wore men's clothing for respect and disguise. It was not uncommon for females to present as males to join during this period (and prior), and even if she was allowed to join as a female surgeon she probably wanted to wear the male uniform to avoid glances (so from a distance people think she is a man).

I highly doubt she was crossdressing for any sexual identity purposes. She was likley just cross dressing for saftey, respect, and convience (they likley did not make female medic uniforms, and it was probably far easier to get male clothes and uniforms while in the field and on deployments).

She certainly made the police suspicious
https://www.nps.gov/people/mary-walker.htm

"Her choice of profession and dress marked her for harassment and ridicule her whole life. In 1870, while she was in New Orleans, she was arrested because she was dressed as a man. The arresting officer twisted her arm, and asked if she had ever been in a relationship with a man (dressing outside of gendered norms at the time was seen as evidence of homosexuality). Dr. Walker was released from custody only after she was recognized by officers of the court. She was frequently arrested for wearning men's clothes, including her signature top hat. She responded to those who criticized her choices, "I don't wear men's clothes, I wear my own clothes.""

Oh yeah, she is definitely a strong woman and deserves the accolades. I just don't think calling her trans is fair when she was clearly just wearing male clothing for utilitarian service purposes.

I honestly did not know there was a female MOH holder, and the fact that she was awarded it in the 1860s while alive (and not posthumously over a century later, like many Civil War MOH holders) makes it more impressive. For a woman soldier in the 1860s to get the award in that time means she impressed some serious people.

Edit: actually it seems she was technically a civilian as was not able to receive a formal commission, but was considered a Civilian Army Volunteer, at the time, but it seems the Civil War is the only event where civilians were issued the MOH. Pretty impressive lady. Anti-slavery, pro-women's rights, became a medical doctror when it was almost unheard of for women, etc.... Though she was also a prohibitionist, so I guess nobody is perfect.

Quote: Gandler

Quote: terapined

Quote: Gandler

Quote: terapined

At the Civil War museum in Richmond
This caught my eye
Medal of honor winner LGBT ?

I don't know this story. But, my guess is she wore men's clothing for respect and disguise. It was not uncommon for females to present as males to join during this period (and prior), and even if she was allowed to join as a female surgeon she probably wanted to wear the male uniform to avoid glances (so from a distance people think she is a man).

I highly doubt she was crossdressing for any sexual identity purposes. She was likley just cross dressing for saftey, respect, and convience (they likley did not make female medic uniforms, and it was probably far easier to get male clothes and uniforms while in the field and on deployments).

She certainly made the police suspicious
https://www.nps.gov/people/mary-walker.htm

"Her choice of profession and dress marked her for harassment and ridicule her whole life. In 1870, while she was in New Orleans, she was arrested because she was dressed as a man. The arresting officer twisted her arm, and asked if she had ever been in a relationship with a man (dressing outside of gendered norms at the time was seen as evidence of homosexuality). Dr. Walker was released from custody only after she was recognized by officers of the court. She was frequently arrested for wearning men's clothes, including her signature top hat. She responded to those who criticized her choices, "I don't wear men's clothes, I wear my own clothes.""

Oh yeah, she is definitely a strong woman and deserves the accolades. I just don't think calling her trans is fair when she was clearly just wearing male clothing for utilitarian service purposes.

I honestly did not know there was a female MOH holder, and the fact that she was awarded it in the 1860s while alive (and not posthumously over a century later, like many Civil War MOH holders) makes it more impressive. For a woman soldier in the 1860s to get the award in that time means she impressed some serious people.

Edit: actually it seems she was technically a civilian as was not able to receive a formal commission, but was considered a Civilian Army Volunteer, at the time, but it seems the Civil War is the only event where civilians were issued the MOH. Pretty impressive lady. Anti-slavery, pro-women's rights, became a medical doctror when it was almost unheard of for women, etc.... Though she was also a prohibitionist, so I guess nobody is perfect.

I'm not calling her Trans
I put a question mark after LGBT
But
Why not
Its logical that the same % of the population that is LGBT today , that same % existed back then

Trangenderism goes back about 4500 years, at least.

Likely further than that because of our ability to write.

I posted a little about it but there was no demand.

There are several references on the internet that are good.

http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/3799/0/

Quote: terapined

Quote: Gandler

Quote: terapined

Quote: Gandler

Quote: terapined

At the Civil War museum in Richmond
This caught my eye
Medal of honor winner LGBT ?

I don't know this story. But, my guess is she wore men's clothing for respect and disguise. It was not uncommon for females to present as males to join during this period (and prior), and even if she was allowed to join as a female surgeon she probably wanted to wear the male uniform to avoid glances (so from a distance people think she is a man).

I highly doubt she was crossdressing for any sexual identity purposes. She was likley just cross dressing for saftey, respect, and convience (they likley did not make female medic uniforms, and it was probably far easier to get male clothes and uniforms while in the field and on deployments).

She certainly made the police suspicious
https://www.nps.gov/people/mary-walker.htm

"Her choice of profession and dress marked her for harassment and ridicule her whole life. In 1870, while she was in New Orleans, she was arrested because she was dressed as a man. The arresting officer twisted her arm, and asked if she had ever been in a relationship with a man (dressing outside of gendered norms at the time was seen as evidence of homosexuality). Dr. Walker was released from custody only after she was recognized by officers of the court. She was frequently arrested for wearning men's clothes, including her signature top hat. She responded to those who criticized her choices, "I don't wear men's clothes, I wear my own clothes.""

Oh yeah, she is definitely a strong woman and deserves the accolades. I just don't think calling her trans is fair when she was clearly just wearing male clothing for utilitarian service purposes.

I honestly did not know there was a female MOH holder, and the fact that she was awarded it in the 1860s while alive (and not posthumously over a century later, like many Civil War MOH holders) makes it more impressive. For a woman soldier in the 1860s to get the award in that time means she impressed some serious people.

Edit: actually it seems she was technically a civilian as was not able to receive a formal commission, but was considered a Civilian Army Volunteer, at the time, but it seems the Civil War is the only event where civilians were issued the MOH. Pretty impressive lady. Anti-slavery, pro-women's rights, became a medical doctror when it was almost unheard of for women, etc.... Though she was also a prohibitionist, so I guess nobody is perfect.

I'm not calling her Trans
I put a question mark after LGBT
But
Why not
Its logical that the same % of the population that is LGBT today , that same % existed back then

Sounded like it was hard enough to explain "man's" clothes. One wants to work and eat. None of the old movie stars were out as gay not all that many decades ago either. And they still existed as well.

Quote: Gandler

Though she was also a prohibitionist, so I guess nobody is perfect.

Alcohol probably has done more harm than good. It's not necessary for life. But, it's likely never going away.

Plus, it produces more unwanted pregnancies with people you wouldn't sleep with if you were sober.

Quote: terapined

I'm not calling her Trans
I put a question mark after LGBT
But
Why not
Its logical that the same % of the population that is LGBT today , that same % existed back then

I am willing to stipulate that it is logical enough as long as you remove, "Non-binary," from the current numbers. Non-binary doesn't seem to require anything other than a person declare that they are that, so unlike transexual, which actually (in theory, at least) describes a concrete state of affairs, non-binary doesn't do that.

That said, I don't care if people want to call themselves, "Non-binary," if they really want to get the stamp on their, "I'm oppressed," and, "Ideological purity," cards that badly; I just don't think the term actually conveys anything.

I only semi-know one person who calls, "Themselves," non-binary, which means I actually loosely know more transexual people than non-binary people. In any event, everything about this person presents extremely female...including the fact that she has one of the biggest pair of tits I have ever seen. I think she's bisexual, or willing to %^$$ anything, really, but I don't know that has anything to do with the non-binary classification.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that differentiates this person from a female (gender, or whatever) is that they prefer not to be called, "She/Her." Easy enough. This person doesn't demand to be addressed as any made up terms, and is fine with they/them, so it doesn't confront me.

I guess the point is that if we're taking, "Non-binary," and lumping them with the T in LGBT, then I would conclude that the percentage is likely greater now than it would have been back then, even if people did have their choice of what to be back then and how to present.

Presently, I think it's simply en vogue to be some sort of minority; ergo, non-binary, which sometimes doesn't seem to actually convey anything.

Quote: Mission146

I am willing to stipulate that it is logical enough as long as you remove, "Non-binary," from the current numbers. Non-binary doesn't seem to require anything other than a person declare that they are that, so unlike transexual, which actually (in theory, at least) describes a concrete state of affairs, non-binary doesn't do that.

That said, I don't care if people want to call themselves, "Non-binary," if they really want to get the stamp on their, "I'm oppressed," and, "Ideological purity," cards that badly; I just don't think the term actually conveys anything.

I only semi-know one person who calls, "Themselves," non-binary, which means I actually loosely know more transexual people than non-binary people. In any event, everything about this person presents extremely female...including the fact that she has one of the biggest pair of tits I have ever seen. I think she's bisexual, or willing to %^$$ anything, really, but I don't know that has anything to do with the non-binary classification.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that differentiates this person from a female (gender, or whatever) is that they prefer not to be called, "She/Her." Easy enough. This person doesn't demand to be addressed as any made up terms, and is fine with they/them, so it doesn't confront me.

I guess the point is that if we're taking, "Non-binary," and lumping them with the T in LGBT, then I would conclude that the percentage is likely greater now than it would have been back then, even if people did have their choice of what to be back then and how to present.

Presently, I think it's simply en vogue to be some sort of minority; ergo, non-binary, which sometimes doesn't seem to actually convey anything.

Transsexual ABSOLUTELY does not describe a ‘concrete state of affairs’. Many, if not most, who declare themselves their non biological gender have NOT had the surgery to lop off the junk.

Speaking of Women in the old days, passing themselves off as Men in order to serve in the Military, one particular woman even MARRIED another Woman while pretending to be a Man! That's real hardcore! 😱✊