The Coronavirus thread

Quote: AZDuffman

I lived thru it and remember well. He said strongly, "NO NEW TAXES!" and caved not even halfway into his term. This helped cause a short but sharp recession. After the Gulf War he was so untouchable that SNL did a skit of all the Democrats saying how they were not the one to run against him. Had heavier hitters gone in early Clinton would have never lasted past NH. Meanwhile 41 jsut let himself be attacked, be made fun of, just "acted presidential." And had a no energy re-election campaign. Perot had all the energy for the most part. Had he not dropped out then re-entered and had he not had such a fool as a running mate he would have taken 30% easily.

I do recall something along those lines now. The whole, "Read my lips," thing. Well, that was neither the first nor last time a campaign promise was broken. Maybe then, but I don't think it can even be said that Republicans are generally opposed to new taxation---really a question of who is getting taxed.

If you get to the nitty-gritty, Bush v. Clinton, no Perot, who do you think wins?

Quote: AZDuffman

Maybe you should get sources outside CNN, MSNBC, and CBS. No intelligent person would rank a POTUS before they are out of office at least 20 years.

None of those are the ranking groups. Generally historical groups that have various methods for ranking the overall success and effectiveness of Presidents.

To be fair, most rankings occurred in 2018 (that seemed the be the last year most mainstream groups updated their lists, I guess there is a certain numbers of years they wait between doing them), so this was all pre-COVID. My guess is COVID will hurt his rating. He will probably still beat Buchanan, but that is a low bar (President who pushed the Supreme Court to rule in favor of slavery.....)

Maybe 2022 there will be an updated ranking? I guess we will see.

Quote: Mission146

I do recall something along those lines now. The whole, "Read my lips," thing. Well, that was neither the first nor last time a campaign promise was broken. Maybe then, but I don't think it can even be said that Republicans are generally opposed to new taxation---really a question of who is getting taxed.

If you get to the nitty-gritty, Bush v. Clinton, no Perot, who do you think wins?

It wasn't just a promise being broken. It was a major promise made in no ambiguous terms broken the first chance he got. Since then GOP POTUS and candidates have gotten smarter not to cave to Democrats. Bush43 was smart enough not to direct answer that biased debate question to "name 3 mistakes he made" for example.

Bush v. Clinton is tough. Bush41 was a guy who looked like he did not care if he won. Was just as glad to get out of DC after all those years. Clinton was sort of that generation's JFK in his youth compared to the last guy's older age. But Clinton was very flawed. One on one if Bush called out his character he would probably squeak by a whisker. Except Bush did not want to go that route.

Quote: Tanko

FAUCI: "The masks are important for someone who's infected to prevent them from infecting someone else. Now, when you see people and look at the films in China and South Korea, whatever, and everybody's wearing a mask. Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks."

We’ covered this before.

He knew this deadly virus spreads through water droplets, like the common cold, yet he told America there was no need to wear a mask ‘right now’.

He made that statement on March 8, 2020, when Europe already had 47,000 known cases, and Italy alone had 388 deaths.

He later admitted, he recommended against wearing masks in order to preserve the supply for health care workers.

Whether or not there was a mask shortage, he did not have the right to deliberately provide, misleading, possibly deadly advice to millions of people.

Especially considering what he knew was happening in Europe.

We will never know how many people died after following his advice.

Turns out, there never was a mask shortage.

“Two things happened. It became clear we had enough and there was no shortage, and that cloth coverings that you didn’t have to buy and could make for yourself, were adequate.”

In January he said on the ‘Today’ show,

“If you have a physical covering with one layer, you put another layer on, it just makes common sense that it likely would be more effective.

Here he is one week later admitting “There is no data that indicates that that is going to make a difference, and that is why the CDC has not changed the recommendation”

You really really hate Fauci with a passion
We get it. Message received over and over
Yet you give Trump a total pass on not firing Fauci saying Trump did not fire because Fauci was doing a terrible job for a real long time and Trump simply does not fire anybody doing a crappy job for a real long time.
I just dont understand why Trump gets a pass keeping Fauci on that you hate so passionately.
Dont you think its absurd not to fire a crappy employee just because they have been doing a crappy job for a real long time. It makes no sense.

Quote: Gandler

None of those are the ranking groups. Generally historical groups that have various methods for ranking the overall success and effectiveness of Presidents.

To be fair, most rankings occurred in 2018 (that seemed the be the last year most mainstream groups updated their lists, I guess there is a certain numbers of years they wait between doing them), so this was all pre-COVID. My guess is COVID will hurt his rating. He will probably still beat Buchanan, but that is a low bar (President who pushed the Supreme Court to rule in favor of slavery.....)

Maybe 2022 there will be an updated ranking? I guess we will see.

That shows even more how silly that ranking is. Booming economy, new trade deal for North America in short time, and getting Arab countries to make peace with Israel and that guy is ranked near the bottom?

Oh, yeah, no new wars, either.

Give me a break.

Quote: AZDuffman

Bush43 was smart enough not to direct answer that biased debate question to "name 3 mistakes he made" for

Best answer: If you don’t know, then I don’t either.

I had forgotten about Perot’s vice. I think Perot had known him from years before but hadn’t really kept up with him. First impressions can be a killer, when it doesn’t go well.

Quote: rxwine

Best answer: If you don’t know, then I don’t either.

I had forgotten about Perot’s vice. I think Perot had known him from years before but hadn’t really kept up with him. First impressions can be a killer, when it doesn’t go well.

That dude was bad 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Not a bad best answer though.

I am not saying Fauci did not make mistakes or that his judgement was perfect. All I am saying is that he did not lie about the effectiveness of wearing masks.

Quote: Tanko

FAUCI: "The masks are important for someone who's infected to prevent them from infecting someone else. Now, when you see people and look at the films in China and South Korea, whatever, and everybody's wearing a mask. Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks."

Yes, I quoted that in context.

Quote:

He knew this deadly virus spreads through water droplets, like the common cold, yet he told America there was no need to wear a mask ‘right now’.

He made that statement on March 8, 2020, when Europe already had 47,000 known cases, and Italy alone had 388 deaths.

It had not yet become clear to him that the disease was spreading largely by asymptomatic people, so he recommended healthy people not wear masks. He reversed his opinion about masks three weeks later when there was mounting evidence of asymptomatic spread. On march 8 there were some 500 cases in the US. By the end of March when he reversed his opinion there were nearly 200,000.

Quote:

He later admitted, he recommended against wearing masks in order to preserve the supply for health care workers.
Whether or not there was a mask shortage, he did not have the right to deliberately provide, misleading, possibly deadly advice to millions of people.

He said he was trying to preserve the mask supply in the same interview on March 8, if you read the full in-context quote that I posted. This argument that he later "admitted" a hidden motive is nonsense. Since he did not know the extent of asymptomatic spread his recommendation that people without symptoms not wear masks was not misleading. It was his judgement.

Quote:

Turns out, there never was a mask shortage.

Of course there was a mask shortage. Hospital personnel were reusing masks, using expired masks, using homemade masks. Many nursing home employees had no masks. Those cloth masks that you see now were not available. A cloth mask meant a bandanna or something homemade. You don't remember that?

Quote:

“Two things happened. It became clear we had enough and there was no shortage, and that cloth coverings that you didn’t have to buy and could make for yourself, were adequate.”

Source? I can't find this quote anywhere. Not saying it's fabricated, I would just like to see it in context.

Quote: JimRockford

I am not saying Fauci did not make mistakes or that his judgement was perfect..

100 percent serious --if they brought Fauci up before a medical review board, they'd most likely recommend a promotion. But I don't think there is anything left to be promoted to within his specialty.

Quote: AZDuffman

That shows even more how silly that ranking is. Booming economy, new trade deal for North America in short time, and getting Arab countries to make peace with Israel and that guy is ranked near the bottom?

Oh, yeah, no new wars, either.

Give me a break.

I don't know how anyone can think Trump was anything but a bad President. In my adult life he has easily been the worst President, based on nothing but character.

For example, I may not love Bush on all policies (for a Republican he did get a lot right), but he is a down to earth man who is likeable. In fact both Bush and Obama seem extremely likable. Trump seems like the least likable person on the planet (maybe without exaggeration).

It would be hard for somebody to force a social model that was more socially wrong on how he acted in so many scenarios than Trump. Like Trump just does everything that it is taboo to do or say, and then lies about it..... In fact he lies about almost everything.

I would take 20 years of Bush over one Trump term without a second thought. However, Bush would never want to be President for more than two terms (which is another socially wrong fantasy of Trump that he would say at his rallies about how he should be President for three "or more" terms, as if we don't need more reasons to dislike him).

I fail to see how anyone likes Trump. One thing I have been taught since a child is that Trump is a lying conman, and nothing over the course of my life has changed this view. If anything his Presidency made it far stronger. He was empirically a bad President, is a bad person, and is not good at business (all of these are basic facts, from the amount of time he violates social conventions, to failed businesses, to Presidential rankings). Defending Trump at this point is standing at the bow of the Titanic as it sinks while trying to sell to people that it is unsinkable.

Trump will go down in history as one of the worst Presidents ever. I am happy to foresee that in 20 years this will still be the case. In fact I will say in 20 years he will be in the bottom 5 easily (I never underestimate the possibility that bad Presidents who are intelligent enough to do real damage to America can be elected between now and then).