The Coronavirus thread

Quote: Evenbob

Saner minds are finally weighing in:

The overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively. The vast majority of patients recover, and among those who are hospitalized, the median stay thus far is 12 days. Those who have died have been elderly or were already suffering from another illness — as with ordinary flu. The underlying data suggest that the symptoms varies, and fewer than one in six of the cases reported were “severe.” New England Journal of Medicine

What saner minds? It was predicted already as likely to drop if we ever got accurate numbers. I already said that when I noted they had the rate at 20 times the flu. But accuracy of the Chinese report of total number of cases was always in doubt since it was likely the less sick people never were detected.

I still haven't seen an official number reported anywhere though. That looks preliminary.

Quote: Tanko

It may be due to under reporting, small sample, or study bias, but the rate of autism among the Amish, who do not receive as many vaccines was reported in a 2010 University of Vanderbilt study as 1 in 271. One in 10,000 according to this article.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-amish-dont-get-autism/
FALSE

Quote: terapined

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-amish-dont-get-autism/
FALSE

Your link confirms Tanko's post.

Quote: Tanko

Not 'anti-vax'. He was a vaccine sceptic in 2007, as were a lot of people. "When I was growing up, autism wasn't really a factor," "And now all of a sudden, it's an epidemic … My theory is the shots. We're giving these massive injections at one time, and I really think it does something to the children."

In 2015, he stated “I am totally in favor of vaccines, but I want smaller doses over a longer period of time”

During the measles outbreaks in 2019, he stated “They have to get the shots. The vaccinations are so important,” “This is really going around now. They have to get their shots.”

No MMR Link JAMA

9 month old McDowell triplets become autistic within hours of receiving pneumococcal vaccine.

Current rate of autism is 1 in 59 children.

It may be due to under reporting, small sample, or study bias, but the rate of autism among the Amish, who do not receive as many vaccines was reported in a 2010 University of Vanderbilt study as 1 in 271. One in 10,000 according to this article.

Well, not to belabor the facts because it's not entirely my point, but dude was passed skeptic into full on imbecile well after 2007...





I mean, he says it, in no uncertain terms, years after that vax=autism study was debunked.

But I wasn't intending my point to be "hur dur, look at the idiot", and I too am aware he was championing vax during the measles resurgence. My point was when it comes to strength in leadership, I don't put any faith in a guy whose knowledge on such matters is limited to Facebook level soundbites and opinions. I do expect leaders to be responsible, strong and brave. To set an example of proper course of action, to have some semblance of clue before spouting nonsense, and most important, have the skills to put people who are experts at the head of the spear. Since Trump isn't educated, and has a history of spouting nonsense Facebook logic, and has shown no respect for language over the course of forever, I find the idea that a man with such traits holding this scourge to "<100 deaths" to be so much faith without evidence and patently ridiculous.

I very nearly lost my child and wife in labor, so when it came time to talk shots in 2008 just months later, I was f#$%ing terrified. That's what ignorance gets you. Fear and inability to make intelligent decisions that resulted in a >0 chance of leaving my kid unprotected from easily preventable disease.

FFW to today and I know that diseases has a genetic cause, so seeing an exclusive, xenophobic culture being spared it isn't towards the scary claim's proof, but rather evidence that I've not one thing to worry about and I can go forward in confidence to ensure my family is protected, and save my energy for dangers that actually exist.

Idiot v erudite. The choice is obvious.

Quote: terapined

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-amish-dont-get-autism/FALSE

No one is denying the Amish have Autism in their population. The Snopes article also mentioned the Amish vaccination rate is lower than the national average. That is why I included the Snopes article, which also cited a University of Miami and Vanderbilt University study that concluded the rate of Autism among the Amish is only 1 in 271, versus 1 in 59 for the general population according to the CDC.

“Preliminary data have identified the presence of ASD in the Amish community at a rate of approximately 1 in 271 children using standard ASD screening and diagnostic tools although some modifications may be in order.”

The question is whether this is due to genetics, a faulty study, a small sample, or the fact that Amish children receive fewer vaccines than the rest of the population.

Ten years later, are there any other studies that dispute the Vanderbilt findings?

As for 'debunked', here is another study posted by the government funded NCBI.

“ A positive and statistically significant relationship was found: The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of AUT or SLI. “

Quote: rxwine

Ironically, success of vaccines in our country has been successful enough, they can only see the tiny tip of possible vaccine problems, having no idea of what they gained instead when they start wanting to opt out.

Good point. When people bitch about how expensive medicines are or, for that matter, how expensive I am, I just point to the unbelievable explosion in life expectancy. Us older folks who can remember our childhood..... there were almost no nonogenarians, and few octogenarians. Now at my local Y they seem to be in the majority! Modern medicine is an amazing success story, despite the 'healthcare crisis' the Libs point to at every turn. Do you think that all these 80 and 90 year olds are just rich Republicans? No. The successes have brought up the entire society.
If you take away people who kill themselves by bad decisions (illegal drug use, smoking, untreated obesity) the success would be even more staggering.

The profit motive to develop the next diabetes drug, or high blood pressure drug, is what keeps the advances coming. Same for the next better Iphone, or car, or microwavable popcorn.

Quote: Tanko

As for 'debunked', here is another study posted by the government funded NCBI.

“ A positive and statistically significant relationship was found: The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of AUT or SLI. “

that url has a url on the same page to this refutation:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20812501 ... gist: studies show no link

your posted url ends with "Further study into the relationship between vaccines and autism is warranted"

I do have to admit I have some sympathy for parents who are asked to have their children undergo some 26 vaccinations inoculations for 14 diseases , 5 shots at a time sometimes. In my day it was polio and smallpox only I am pretty sure, though I went through the polio thing twice

Quote: SOOPOO

Modern medicine is an amazing success story,

It's a huge profitable business
keeping old people alive as
long as possible. They have
all the money and assets. My
wife's parents are in assisted
living in their 90's and just a
few years ago were worth
over half a mil. Now it's all
gone, they're flat broke and
there is zero inheritance for
their kids. The doctors and
staff have it all and my wife
and sisters live the nightmare
of having to visit parents
that have Parkinsons and
alzheimers and have to be
wheeled everywhere.

Quote: Evenbob

It's a huge profitable business
keeping old people alive as
long as possible. They have
all the money and assets. My
wife's parents are in assisted
living in their 90's and just a
few years ago were worth
over half a mil. Now it's all
gone, they're flat broke and
there is zero inheritance for
their kids. The doctors and
staff have it all and my wife
and sisters live the nightmare
of having to visit parents
that have Parkinsons and
alzheimers and have to be
wheeled everywhere.

What is your solution?

Quote: Evenbob

It's a huge profitable business
keeping old people alive as
long as possible. They have
all the money and assets. My
wife's parents are in assisted
living in their 90's and just a
few years ago were worth
over half a mil. Now it's all
gone, they're flat broke and
there is zero inheritance for
their kids. The doctors and
staff have it all and my wife
and sisters live the nightmare
of having to visit parents
that have Parkinsons and
alzheimers and have to be
wheeled everywhere.

Not arguing with anything you have said here. I of course have no details of the condition of your wife's parents, but it was their money that is being used to take care of them. End of life decisions are not easy. Read some of DRich's posts. He won't squander his money on his end of life.

Quote: petroglyph

What is your solution?

Move the assets before they can
be sucked up by all the hugely
expensive tests and whistles
and bells of old age healthcare.
They would have got the same
care if they had $100K in assets
as they did with $500K in assets.