First Principles

January 11th, 2020 at 3:31:06 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Yes, because don't forget, God is only responsible for the good things.

Free will is why kids get cancer.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
January 11th, 2020 at 3:40:42 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: FrGamble
Suffering, starvation, and the brokenness of this world is not the design of God, but is what He is able to do in respecting our free will and the consequences of sin, while still offering eternal salvation.
deleted, wrong question
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
January 11th, 2020 at 3:57:09 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
See? Platitudes. Xtions are incapable
of seeing the objective world, they
only see the one they invent for
their subjective reality. We're all
perfect, they say, yet 'flawed'. We're
flawed all right, we're nothing but
flaws. And science will pull us out
of our disgusting selfish history,
not some mythical god.


Platitudes? I think I just said we as human beings are responsible for the ruin of our world and the cause of suffering and death. That is pretty bad, but we were made for greatness. You must think the same thing because you believe science will save us in a quasi-religious way.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
January 11th, 2020 at 4:09:47 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Platitudes?


Yup. You have an endless supply
of them.

"God does not cause suffering. God's plan for all of us is perfect and eternal happiness. This is achieved by simply loving God and others.."

Sometimes a word definition nails it:

plat·i·tude
/ˈpladəˌt(y)o͞od/
a remark or statement, especially one with a moral content, that has been used too often to be interesting or thoughtful.

All Xtion leaders are stuffed full of
platitudes, they dispense them
like they actually have meaning.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 12th, 2020 at 5:09:54 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Using your definition of platitude, it seems like all you do.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
January 12th, 2020 at 6:42:30 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Quote: FrGamble
The elusive, temporary, and fleeting comfort of this world is not what life is about.
Oh? Everyday you greet the sun, hunt for food, fight enemies , protect wives and children, rest comfortably and do it all the next day. Life's pleasures are temporary. Meals, even feasts, are brief, bath water does not stay warm forever, perfumes fade, memories fade, youth and beauty fade,

Your longer-term viewpoint does not empower you to dampen the spirits of today by dwelling on eternity.
January 12th, 2020 at 7:07:28 AM permalink
toomuch
Member since: Dec 30, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 22
God did the "lifting a rock that can't be lifted" thing when he became Jesus to be under while over, with free will for us to make our own decisions with consequences. In this manner, God is outside (and inside) of things w/o being responsible for every little (or big) thing. God doesn't have to be directly (or indirectly) involved with us to exist, or to have meaning, place and influence.

As far as Jesus goes, it’s probable that with so many possible religions that one or a few of them hits on something more than the religious. I used to be amazed at the complexity of some of the religious philosophical writings, at a time before I become more mentally aware later on. For sure, even without considering any religions at all – although, I think, we unknowingly substitute other things for it now – there is still the possibility for an almost infinite number of real such mysteries out there. For example, as humans we may not be at the center in the grand scheme of things, but, perhaps, we are at the middle of the evolutionary process. What could this mean?

Just that some things resonant with and in the universe more than others, which has nothing to do per se with forcing things as handwringing, becoming hermits, intellectualizing, having to determine/fudge the end of all arguments, and, etc.

Edit: Does God play dice with the universe? You betcha!
Were there a God, per se, then there wouldn't be any atheists, to begin with.
January 12th, 2020 at 8:43:49 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: FrGamble
God most certainly didn't introduce the concept of hate, God does not cause suffering. God's plan for all of us is perfect and eternal happiness. This is achieved by simply loving God and others. For anyone to truly love we need free will. We choose to use our freedom to reject God and His plan. Suffering, starvation, and the brokenness of this world is not the design of God, but is what He is able to do in respecting our free will and the consequences of sin, while still offering eternal salvation.


Didn't introduce the concept? Perhaps not, but he certainly perpetuated that concept in the Old Testament. Not a big fan of those who weren't the, "Chosen People," and if we take the Bible to be true, I guess we can link the concept of tribalism to its roots there. Not exactly a message of peace and God will towards men when the manifestation was that of a burning bush rather than Jesus Christ, I'll tell you that.

But, God learned from his mistakes. He wasn't all-loving, but he became so. So much for infallibility, I guess.

Yeah, I like the notion of eternal happiness. I like that notion about as much as the notion of a father who smacks his kid in the face for no reason, but apologizes, and promises it will never happen again. "I'll make it up to you tomorrow."

And, to the extent that God is first cause, ultimately, God becomes only cause. You can't separate the omnipotence from the free will, because the will isn't free. He created people and set events in motion knowing the result of those events. If he doesn't know the result of events, then the Book of Revelations is nothing more than an educated guess. We can't choose to do anything if we were created with foreknowledge of what each person would do, thereby making free will illusory, at best, and a lie, at worst.

Do I offer a dog food only on the condition that he learns and obeys his commands? I think the humane society might take umbrage with that. You feed the dog regardless and hope that he will learn his commands. At least the LDS version of things feeds the dog no matter what, just gives the dog treats if he is well-behaved.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
January 12th, 2020 at 8:56:24 AM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
January 12th, 2020 at 10:07:17 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Using your definition of platitude, it seems like all you do.


My posts have 'moral content'? Really?
I had no idea, thanks...
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.