First Principles

Quote: FrGamble

Deal with reality and you'll be a happier person and won't need to constantly lie to yourself and hide from the truth.

You can't give a single example
of me lying to myself, yet I can
give several for you. Religion
is a crutch and you know it's
a crutch. It's promoters
present it as such. That you
can't live without them to
prop you up.

Quote: FrGamble

Deal with reality and you'll be a happier person and won't need to constantly lie to yourself and hide from the truth.

The nature of reality is that it has no nature. But, this is equivalent to stating that the only thing for sure is nothing. And, with the latter statement, it's a little easier to see that it's a paradox that resolves itself. Certainty is paradox-resolved, ie, it can't just be, in a simple manner, because then everything would be certain. If we had one thing for sure in a simple manner, then everything else would follow effortlessly from it. (The reason for relegating continuous matter to a point.) The reason that there are a dozen or so different philosophical interpretations of Quantum Theory is that they all point to the same thing by a convoluted manner.

Again, if you start with one extreme position, or the other, then that's where you will end up. Surprise, surprise, then everything seems to fit, but, only because you made it so to begin with. Trying to put the extreme(s) to where you are is the opposite of carefully adjusting your position to a convergent "correct" one by using all of the available information, including the nature of reality. Note that you have to adjust also your own definitions of things along the way. Even the "rules" are in play. This is because there can be no "unification" of anything until, of everything.

Yes, I know, I'm the Devil, or something confused. I have to be for you to have your God, and eat it too. That is how a cult works. Not far off, the extremist groups.

I would not say you are the devil or anything like that. I do have a hard time following your posts, but that is probably just me. I don't know exactly what of my beliefs you might consider "extreme". I do agree that usually extreme positions are not the place to be, it is usually taking some truth and taking it to the absurd.

Quote: Evenbob

Religion
is a crutch and you know it's
a crutch. It's promoters
present it as such. That you
can't live without them to
prop you up.

That is a lie.

Quote: Evenbob

You can't give a single example
of me lying to myself, yet I can
give several for you. Religion
is a crutch and you know it's
a crutch. It's promoters
present it as such. That you
can't live without them to
prop you up.

Not sure that's true. If we write our own rules, then FrG is being consistent within his world. You can fault the world from your perspective, but you can't call him a liar.

Quote: FrGamble

That is a lie.

Same response.

Quote: FrGamble

That is a lie.

Not really. Every Xtion I know leans
heavily on his religion every time
there is the slightest stress in their
life. Just like you lean on a crutch
when your leg is injured. I don't
see anything wrong with that, the
weak minded need something to
get them thru the stressful times.
Their mythical invisible friend Jesus
and being around others who share
their weak minded attitude seems
to help them cope. Just like a crutch
does.

Quote: Mosca

You can fault the world from your perspective, but you can't call him a liar.

Where did I call him a liar. He
calls me a liar all the time.

Quote: FrGamble

I would not say you are the devil or anything like that. I do have a hard time following your posts, but that is probably just me.
d.

Nope, not just you. I've given
up reading them, too many
disjointed thoughts.

Quote: Evenbob

Where did I call him a liar. He
calls me a liar all the time.

Lying to himself. In his rules, he is completely truthful to himself.