First Principles
January 23rd, 2020 at 12:59:11 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
When I was trying to be a Christian many years ago, the group I was in was constantly talking about the spiritual war they were involved in with the Devil. They loved every minute of it, they were the center of attention in the spiritual world. God wanted them, the devil wanted them, it was a battle every day and they cherished it. Made them feel important, and that's the whole point of religion. To make you feel like you're stupid, meaningless life not only means something, but mean something glorious. This is why there are so many Christians, it's an easy sell. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:31:30 AM permalink | |
Mosca Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 22 Posts: 730 |
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. |
January 23rd, 2020 at 7:57:23 AM permalink | |
toomuch Member since: Dec 30, 2019 Threads: 0 Posts: 22 | Could say the same of the group of kids, around the same time, who thought that computers were going to tell us everything. One of my roommates told us, the next morning, about a nightmare in which he thought he was trapped in a computer. Religion to science is apples to oranges. Being "cool" with whatever, while reality remains reality. If reality could laugh, whom would it be laughing at? Were there a God, per se, then there wouldn't be any atheists, to begin with. |
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:34:11 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Great analogy, wish I would have of it. Both sides think they're good and the other side is evil. And they are, because good and evil are just ideas, they don't exist in the objective world. FrG will never see this because his whole religion is based on myth and superstition being real. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:50:40 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
One of them is right and the other is wrong, sometimes you need better facts, a different perspective, or history to show us who is who. The fact remains there is evil and good. They are not truly the same and no amount of subjective opinion can change that. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:52:51 PM permalink | |
toomuch Member since: Dec 30, 2019 Threads: 0 Posts: 22 | That we all must create our own realities, ie, use the same, one(-is-other) reality to try to consistently explain ourselves, means that no one such "reality" is above any other. A few more guesses. Science, too, even in terms of mathematics, is just a bunch of ideas because none of it means that we actually own anything in the universe. But another illusion that we are gaining on something. There are no guarantees for any of us, so, all our lives will come to a screeching halt no matter what we cling to. We weren't here before we were born, so, nor will we be after. And, there's no coming back because the same person can't be in two places at once, with his/her past alongside his/her new future, which becomes another past. (Can't have a past defined so that it's not the, a past.) Most surprisingly, and niggling, what we have, and who we are in this life are lost to the next where all the people on one side of an argument become those on the other side with whom they argued with in the life before. Yin and yang at its finest. Here's a quote I grabbed off the internet, just now. Less extreme than my guesses, but, I think, supportive: Nor will science, itself, ever be complete. Were there a God, per se, then there wouldn't be any atheists, to begin with. |
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:55:42 PM permalink | |
toomuch Member since: Dec 30, 2019 Threads: 0 Posts: 22 | Too often, all sides in a dispute are wrong. And, then, the judges seek a way for all sides to be right, to quickly dismiss legal cases, to further also their own corrupt interests. Were there a God, per se, then there wouldn't be any atheists, to begin with. |
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:15:57 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Just not true at all. Hemingway was deeply involved in the Spanish Civil War in the 1930's. He was on the side of the freedom fighter, even fought with them. He gradually came to realize he didn't know which side was right and got out.
The only fact is we label things good and evil, and it doesn't exist outside our labeling. You can't prove they exist either, you've tried. You always have your go to example, The Holocaust. Pure evil, you say. Which part of The Holocaust, it wasn't all evil. You have to narrow it down and narrow it down until you get the one person violating the human rights of another person. If that's the case, then the inquisition's held by the Catholic Church are just as evil as the Holocaust. But the church didn't see it that way. They truly thought they were doing good, they thought they were doing God's will. To the people they were doing it to, it was pure evil. To the church they were helping these people to see the light. Two sides of the same coin, that's good and evil. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:24:03 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | You are sadly mistaken and right at the same time. You implicitly admit that "violating a human rights", a strange euphemism for killing innocent people, is evil. Then you posit that because someone thinks they are doing good it makes it not evil. That is baloney and you know it. I don't care who thinks killing the innocent is a good thing, it is not! Public opinion, the majority, you, me, or even the Pope can't make something evil a good. Surely you understand this, please. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 24th, 2020 at 12:39:31 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
It comes down to that thing you like to pretend that you don't understand, subjective reality. The priests in the Catholic Church we're doing a good thing during the Inquisition. In their subjective reality this is what God was telling them to do. In their minds they were fighting against evil, not doing evil. The people on the receiving end of all this goodness felt a little differently about it. Good and evil are just words we use to describe where you're standing at the time. They are reference points, they help us make sense of a world in a universe that doesn't give one whit about what we do. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |