Columbus Day or Indiginous People'd Day?

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October 16th, 2019 at 10:38:45 AM permalink
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Quote: rxwine

I have no proof of course, but I like the idea of spinning who was really more enlightened. Generally that's what a lot of people still do today. They're not more primitive than the ones they left, but had different goals. Just like people could be mistaken that the Amish are primitive because they aren't smart enough. Not true, but if you only looked at remains of what they left you might think so.


I've no desire to compete. I only want the truth.

Take my people for example. Relative to the world, we were not a "technologically advanced people". There's no tin in NY and Ontario; we didn't do bronze age metallurgy. Traditional America did not have draft animals, there was no large scale tilling for ag. No gunpowder, obviously. We did not create aqueducts and pyramids; our engineering never really got passed the longhouse. We hunted, fished, and farmed. Simple. Archaic.

HOWEVER, where we succeeded, and our (erased) mark on the world, was in our diplomacy. Instead of continuing the myriad forms of tribalism and the many wars and conflicts it caused, we chose a path of unity. We banded with our local brothers and created the Iroquois Confederacy, joining together 5 tribes that spanned all of NY and much of Southern ONT, and held it together with Constitution of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, or the Great Law of Peace. We created a system of government that removed the power from one high performing individual and spread it across all peoples. We created a system of checks and balances within our government. What we did was create SECURITY AT HOME. Because of this, our 12,000 people with just 1,200 fighting men were able to hold off encroaching tribes and white man's imperialism, as no effort had to be saved for back home.

The Great Law of Peace is the inspiration for the Constitution of the United States of America. Benjamin Franklin spoke often with Iroquois leaders, and directly to Canasatego, the Iroquois leader at the time. Franklin saw the value, saw what it had done for our people, and saw that the fracted, fighting colonies, who all had their own wants, all had fights with the British, French, and oft even with themselves, needed to be "united under one flag", so to speak. And so he took inspiration from us, pushed forward with this added information, and used in in creating the Constitution. The same one we still use today.

Who knows this? I've posted it before and was challenged. "There's no connection". Yet a simple Google of Canasatego + Franklin or Constitution + Iroquois has it all right there. Yet we don't get credit. Worse, it's refused. We long ago knew the power and value of women. We long ago knew the importance of Earth and her bounty. We long ago knew about government, power, fairness, justice... and the only representation we ever get is as a savage. Maybe one step above Cro-Magnon, if the writers are feeling nice that day. Maybe a simple woodland creature to guide the brave white adventurer out of the woods. And even that's a far cry from how they treat the Native South Americans. THEY were the ones with pyramids, aqueducts, major effing civilization. The one's who held off the whole of Spain, until disease felled them. Name me one time they were depicted as anything but ripping hearts from chests or throwing virgins into volcanos.

I don't want a pump up. Don't want a sugar coat. I want the truth.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
October 16th, 2019 at 12:44:48 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Columbus wasn’t a man deserving of such continuous honor by both the standards of his day or today’s standards.

Doesn’t mean he doesn’t get credit for what he did that is notable. Genghis Khan gets credit for spreading his DNA the farthest but there’s no reason to pretend he is a humanitarian.
Trump Doctrine-Abandon loyal ally and make pathetic excuses why they weren't worthy
October 16th, 2019 at 1:03:32 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
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Quote: rxwine
Columbus wasn’t a man deserving of such continuous honor by both the standards of his day or today’s standards.

I'm fine with Columbus day
It was a gutsy move of his to cross the Atlantic
He led the 1st crossing that led to a massive population shift.
Its a huge milestone in the history of humans
The 1st in a lot of stuff get honored just for being 1st
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
October 16th, 2019 at 1:19:18 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: rxwine
Columbus wasn’t a man deserving of such continuous honor by both the standards of his day or today’s standards.

Doesn’t mean he doesn’t get credit for what he did that is notable. Genghis Khan gets credit for spreading his DNA the farthest but there’s no reason to pretend he is a humanitarian.


Columbus was an explorer with balls of steel, nobody said confuse him with a humanitarian. Most men did not have the guts to sail off like that.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
October 16th, 2019 at 1:24:47 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 140
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People honor lots of people too much until the truth comes out. Can’t give him a pass.

The question isn’t whether someone is perfect, but whether with all things taken into account whether they deserve the amount of esteem or even deserve more.
Trump Doctrine-Abandon loyal ally and make pathetic excuses why they weren't worthy
October 16th, 2019 at 1:33:56 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 140
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Quote: AZDuffman
Columbus was an explorer with balls of steel, nobody said confuse him with a humanitarian. Most men did not have the guts to sail off like that.


Even when you knew the new world existed, people that got on a wooden sailing ship To come here we’re at great risk. And their living conditions during the trip were often less than ideal.
Trump Doctrine-Abandon loyal ally and make pathetic excuses why they weren't worthy
October 16th, 2019 at 1:45:09 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 119
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Quote: rxwine
Even when you knew the new world existed, people that got on a wooden sailing ship To come here we’re at great risk. And their living conditions during the trip were often less than ideal.


Exactly. And nobody knew how big the world was or how long it would take to get back. Columbus was about 2 weeks from having to turn back.

We absolutely should honor him with a day!
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
October 16th, 2019 at 2:07:30 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 140
Posts: 8148
Quote: AZDuffman
Exactly. And nobody knew how big the world was or how long it would take to get back. Columbus was about 2 weeks from having to turn back.

We absolutely should honor him with a day!


Nope, I'm saying all people had to have the same balls to get on those ships for an ocean voyage.
Trump Doctrine-Abandon loyal ally and make pathetic excuses why they weren't worthy
October 16th, 2019 at 2:09:45 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 134
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Quote: rxwine
And their living conditions during the trip were often less than ideal.


Often? Always. The ships were so small
all the crew could never be below decks
at once. They did everything in shifts,
including sleeping. Discomfort for
months at time, cabin fever deluxe.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 16th, 2019 at 3:15:13 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 119
Posts: 10830
Quote: rxwine
Nope, I'm saying all people had to have the same balls to get on those ships for an ocean voyage.


Columbus had the most because he for seven years tried to convince the king and queen to back it. Then the crews on the first voyage. After that you knew more and more about it.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
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