Columbus Day or Indiginous People'd Day?

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October 15th, 2019 at 9:13:16 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 119
Posts: 10782
Quote: Face


AZD makes my point perfectly. Contrary to his belief, it's been known forever that Native Americans sailed the open ocean. Inuit have been crossing the Bering Sea in kayak since before the days of Khan. The Taino ruled the Caribbean for a hundred lifetimes, how you think they got there? DNA research has found peoples from Polynesia reproduced with Natives from Chile all the way to BC, Vancouver, CAN. (that's anywhere from a 2,300mi to 7,100mi trip; Miami to Spain is 4,400mi, for those keeping score). Archaeologists have found vessels equal to that of ancient Vikings, some with up to 60 rowers. 1st century CE a Native boat landed in Europe, its sailors captured and sold into slavery, the boat put on display in Rome. 1st century CE! But here we have claims that natives "weren't capable of open ocean travel".


Yes, I make that claim. Did they have celestial navigation? If they made all these crossings, why did they not continue their exploration? Why were they so amazed at the boats the Euros had? DNA research? What that is proving is people moved across the old land bridge to North America and spread out. If these peoples had all this capability, what happened to it? A few guys going out on a kayak does not mean the were capable of open ocean travel. It means a few got lucky they did not die in the process.

Look, it is sickening what happened to many Indian peoples. The Cherokee in particular got raw deal after raw deal despite trying to assimilate to the inevitable. But the simple fact is peoples outside Europe, particularly Western Europe, and to a lesser extent the Orient, were not at a level to compete on the technology of the former. And to say the Indians lived some happy, peaceful life before discovery is an outright lie.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
October 15th, 2019 at 10:35:04 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 139
Posts: 8094
Pretty sure it’s possible to find someone more worthy than Columbus of the same time period to celebrate.
Trump Doctrine-Abandon loyal ally and make pathetic excuses why they weren't worthy
October 15th, 2019 at 10:57:12 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 119
Posts: 10782
Quote: rxwine
Pretty sure it’s possible to find someone more worthy than Columbus of the same time period to celebrate.


So he was not perfect. Life then did not have the same standards we have today. Get over it.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
October 15th, 2019 at 10:59:31 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 134
Posts: 18894
Quote: Tanko
In a single day, De Las Casas was an eye witness as the Spanish soldiers dismembered, beheaded, or raped 3000 native people.


This ridiculous statement makes all
of it look like nonsense. 3000 in
a day, really? Ever see 3000 people
in one place, that's a huge number.
It would literally been a logistical
impossibility. It's an urban legend
blown out of proportion. 300 I
might believe, but even that would
be a bloodbath beyond comprehension.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 15th, 2019 at 11:04:17 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 134
Posts: 18894
Quote: AZDuffman


I was in college in 1992, 500th anniversary. Was scary how indoctrinated some of the students were to hating him even then. One woman acted as if he intentionally brought smallpox and other Euro diseases over because he was bored.


In the early 1500's a ship off the
coast of the US could see camp
fires at night from Maine to FL.
Over 2 million Indians lived
on the Eastern seaboard. By
1600 there were no fires because
95% were gone due to infectious
disease.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 15th, 2019 at 12:04:49 PM permalink
Tanko
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 60
Quote: AZDuffman
WOW, that is almost as bad as what the Indians did to each other in tribal wars. Or Asian nations that invaded each other.


We don't honor them with a national holiday.
October 15th, 2019 at 12:14:06 PM permalink
Tanko
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 60
Quote: Evenbob
3000 in a day, really?.....It would literally been a logistical impossibility.


They had the men to do it. Especially against an unarmed population.

The Spaniards were in the New World for 25 years when Bartolome de Las Casas wrote that in 1517.

Columbus made four voyages to the New World between 1492 and 1502.

On his second voyage alone, “he returned with 17 heavily armed ships 1500 men, cannon, guns, crossbows, and attack dogs. All of which he used to fulfill his wishes of conquest of these “Children of God.” -Ramon Rivera
October 15th, 2019 at 12:27:32 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 139
Posts: 8094
Quote: AZDuffman
So he was not perfect. Life then did not have the same standards we have today. Get over it.


They put Columbus in jail for his abuses then, so that doesn't cut it.
Trump Doctrine-Abandon loyal ally and make pathetic excuses why they weren't worthy
October 15th, 2019 at 12:32:26 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 134
Posts: 18894
Quote: Tanko
They had the men to do it.


3000, it never happened. It's a blown
out of proportion 'story', like many
stories are.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 15th, 2019 at 12:39:41 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 139
Posts: 8094
It' a bit later, but those armed with guns on each side. Deaths in civil war battles

Trump Doctrine-Abandon loyal ally and make pathetic excuses why they weren't worthy
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