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Andrew Yang seems pretty awesome

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August 14th, 2019 at 2:50:35 PM permalink

AZDuffman

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18204

Quote: FrGamble
The two national studies quoted from Canada and Finland have almost no similarities to what Yang and others are suggesting. The reality is as one of your articles quoted - up to 47% of people will lose their jobs due to automation in the not to distant future. What are we going to do?

Also in regards to paying for it we have to remember that this would effectively replace welfare and the other social programs the government gives to people. This is getting government out of the way and simplifying things.

I have been hearing robots will replace us almost all my life. Hasn't happened. There will be displacement to be sure, but those workers will move to something else.

Just because it replaces welfare does not mean it can be paid for. Right now, about 40% of the population is not in the labor force. So right off whoever works has to pay in almost double what they get in UBI. Put another way, impossible.

The President is a fink.

August 14th, 2019 at 3:17:18 PM permalink
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596	It isn't paid through our income like Social Security tax, that would go away. Along with savings from social programs it includes a Value Added Tax that would help pay for it. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (

August 14th, 2019 at 3:23:14 PM permalink

AZDuffman

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18204

Quote: FrGamble
It isn't paid through our income like Social Security tax, that would go away. Along with savings from social programs it includes a Value Added Tax that would help pay for it.

So you will get the UBI but have to pay it back via VAT? Just moving money around, and you can bet the VAT will go up and up, paying for other things.

Bottom line, wealth has to come from somewhere. No society has ever given away money to prosperity. UBI cannot work.

The President is a fink.

August 14th, 2019 at 3:36:30 PM permalink
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596	I agree with you about where wealth comes from. A UBI is not wealth, it is help to create an environment where wealth can be made and risks of being an entrepreneur can lessen. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (

August 14th, 2019 at 3:44:58 PM permalink

AZDuffman

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18204

Quote: FrGamble
I agree with you about where wealth comes from. A UBI is not wealth, it is help to create an environment where wealth can be made and risks of being an entrepreneur can lessen.

UBI = money
money = wealth

That UBI comes from someone else's labors.

Don't buy the line that it will make more entrepreneurs. People that want to start a business make it happen. People who "do not have to worry about money" have a much higher failure rate. The former work to make it happen. The later open marginal businesses and go home earlier.

The President is a fink.

August 14th, 2019 at 3:48:10 PM permalink

Wizard

Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095

Quote: AZDuffman
The "Freedom Dividend" will just become a road to serfdom. You cannot just hand out wealth. That wealth has to be stolen from someone else first. As I have said before, if someone wants to prove this can work, lets go to an empty table and you can make an apple appear out of nothing. Because that is what UBI has to do to work, and it cannot do so.

If I were in charge, I would fully pay for all government spending, including this. I would try to get as much government revenue as possible out of taxing sales, property, and energy. Note that I didn't say income. I would prefer to tax consumption rather than creation.

As to another comment, any change in tax law causes some redistribution of wealth. That doesn't mean we should oppose all change.

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber

August 14th, 2019 at 4:27:27 PM permalink

Dalex64

Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687

Quote: Wizard
If I were in charge, I would fully pay for all government spending, including this. I would try to get as much government revenue as possible out of taxing sales, property, and energy. Note that I didn't say income. I would prefer to tax consumption rather than creation.

As to another comment, any change in tax law causes some redistribution of wealth. That doesn't mean we should oppose all change.

If you want this, it would require new federal taxes, such as a federal sales tax and a federal property tax.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan

August 14th, 2019 at 5:01:04 PM permalink

AZDuffman

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18204

Quote: Wizard
If I were in charge, I would fully pay for all government spending, including this. I would try to get as much government revenue as possible out of taxing sales, property, and energy. Note that I didn't say income. I would prefer to tax consumption rather than creation.

As to another comment, any change in tax law causes some redistribution of wealth. That doesn't mean we should oppose all change.

While I am 100% against UBI, I am totally for changing the Constitution to get rid of the income tax. Instead of taxing energy, I would legalize drugs up and down the line and take a cut. Legalize prostitution, take a cut. National lottery.

Time to quit fighting vice and profit off of it.

The President is a fink.

August 14th, 2019 at 5:15:15 PM permalink
Wizard Administrator Member since: Oct 23, 2012 Threads: 239 Posts: 6095	Quote: Dalex64 If you want this, it would require new federal taxes, such as a federal sales tax and a federal property tax. I have no problem with that. Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber

August 14th, 2019 at 5:16:48 PM permalink
Wizard Administrator Member since: Oct 23, 2012 Threads: 239 Posts: 6095	Quote: AZDuffman Time to quit fighting vice and profit off of it. I agree there 100%! Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber

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