The Gay Thread

November 15th, 2019 at 3:58:52 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
How do you figure this? Fact is gay males in both the Catholic Church and BSA abused male youths all across the country. Same as gay males Jerry Sandusky and Pat Patterson did in their power over youth males.

You really do not get it. Years ago there were PSAs on TV to warn against this. Why do you think gays got pushed to the fringes of societies across the world for hundreds of years? It is about this kind of behavior. Along with the pickup culture that was denied upthread before it was proved with examples.

Let me ask you this. BSA now admits girls. Would you call banning straight males going on outings with teenage females "anti-straight" or would you call it common sense?



BSA was never "religious." But they did take an oath to "God and Country" which was never a big deal. Nothing is wrong with this. If you do not want to be in such a group, do something else. What is the big deal?


It has been a well known secret in Scouting circles that those rules were from the Mormon sponsorship.

They are now withdrawing their sponsorship after years of threats because the BSA is "changing values".
See this announcement from earlier today:
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/11/15/lds-church-leader-we/

I have not been associated with BSA since I turned 18, I earned my Eagle and then that was that (never had a desire to be a leader, maybe if I one day have kids in Scouting I would be involved again, but regular members have to leave when turning 18). But, I think it needs better policies for future kids.

BSA's last major discrimination (and the only one that effected me when I was in) is that atheists are not allowed. This is absurd especially since Mormons are no longer involved, there is no more need to listen to them.

I don't think females should be in BSA anymore than males should be on GSA, I agree this can pose issues to the organization.

BSA is highly religious, I know both from experience and research on the subject. Atheists are prohibited from the ranks (this is an open policy you can easily google it), and many other forced spirituality policies.

BSA needs to stop getting involved in culture and religious stuff, and needs to focus on survival, pre-military training, and teamwork.



As for gays engaging in pickup culture, I don't agree, but I am not going back down that road.
November 15th, 2019 at 4:05:32 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
It has been a well known secret in Scouting circles that those rules were from the Mormon sponsorship.

They are now withdrawing their sponsorship after years of threats because the BSA is "changing values".
See this announcement from earlier today:
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/11/15/lds-church-leader-we/

I have not been associated with BSA since I turned 18, I earned my Eagle and then that was that (never had a desire to be a leader, maybe if I one day have kids in Scouting I would be involved again, but regular members have to leave when turning 18). But, I think it needs better policies for future kids.

BSA's last major discrimination (and the only one that effected me when I was in) is that atheists are not allowed. This is absurd especially since Mormons are no longer involved, there is no more need to listen to them.

I don't think females should be in BSA anymore than males should be on GSA, I agree this can pose issues to the organization.

BSA is highly religious, I know both from experience and research on the subject. Atheists are prohibited from the ranks (this is an open policy you can easily google it), and many other forced spirituality policies.

BSA needs to stop getting involved in culture and religious stuff, and needs to focus on survival, pre-military training, and teamwork.



As for gays engaging in pickup culture, I don't agree, but I am not going back down that road.


I got out after Cub Scouts. Same values. To call it “religious” is absurd. I fail to see a problem with atheists not allowed in a group where you take an oath to God and country. Decades ago when a belief in God was normal for BSA and other groups they were far stronger. No spirituality policies are “forced.” If you do not like the policies find a group that better fits your values.

I agree that if loads of examples do not convince you of the gay pickup culture nothing will.
The President is a fink.
November 15th, 2019 at 4:54:18 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
I got out after Cub Scouts. Same values. To call it “religious” is absurd. I fail to see a problem with atheists not allowed in a group where you take an oath to God and country. Decades ago when a belief in God was normal for BSA and other groups they were far stronger. No spirituality policies are “forced.” If you do not like the policies find a group that better fits your values.

I agree that if loads of examples do not convince you of the gay pickup culture nothing will.


It is religious. In fact openly stated Atheists and Agnostics are the last groups banned from BSA (which is absurd since even females and transgender kids can join.....) Prayer, services, and religious projects are a key part of BSA (not so much in my troop, but in many parts of the country, the only time my atheisms came up was at National Jamborees -back when they were still at Army bases- ).



" Declaration of Religious Principle. The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law." The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of his favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. '

"A Scout is Reverent" (One of the facets of The Scout's Law).

BTW atheists have only been officially banned since the mids 80s (again pressure from religious backers...…)

I do agree that they have a right to have their organization how they like (I just wish they would change it, and as somebody who actually experienced all ranks of the organization I feel that I have the ability to have an opinion on such a topic).

I also think it is wrong that the government cut ties with the Scouts. BSA can no longer do training at Army bases which is sad as that was the original purpose of BSA. If it were not for BSA, I probably would never have been so interested in the Army (I often make the analogy that being in the Infantry is like being a professional Boy Scout, lots of camping, lots of Land Navigation, lots of wilderness survival skills).

The fact that BSA accepts homosexuals (as they should), females (which is absurd), and transgenders (which is questionable), but not atheists is silly in my view. If they want to be socially conservatives (they already lost church and gov ties so they have nothing to lose) they should go all in and ban all of it, but accepting everyone except for Atheists/Agnostics (in my view the same thing), seems like they cannot make up their mind on their social positions.
November 15th, 2019 at 5:55:47 PM permalink
Shrek
Member since: Aug 13, 2019
Threads: 6
Posts: 1635
Quote: terapined
I see no reason to hate somebody simply because they are gay.

Same here. Thank god nobody here hates gays.
We just dislike their lifestyle (just like libbies dislike the Christian lifestyle).
November 15th, 2019 at 5:56:45 PM permalink
Shrek
Member since: Aug 13, 2019
Threads: 6
Posts: 1635
Quote: AZDuffman
You really do not get it.

Of course he doesn't get it. He's a typical libbie. 😂😂
November 15th, 2019 at 6:25:31 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
It is religious. In fact openly stated Atheists and Agnostics are the last groups banned from BSA (which is absurd since even females and transgender kids can join.....) Prayer, services, and religious projects are a key part of BSA (not so much in my troop, but in many parts of the country, the only time my atheisms came up was at National Jamborees -back when they were still at Army bases- ).



" Declaration of Religious Principle. The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law." The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of his favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. '

"A Scout is Reverent" (One of the facets of The Scout's Law).

BTW atheists have only been officially banned since the mids 80s (again pressure from religious backers...…)


That does not make it "religious." It just means you need to recognize a higher power. Not a unique position at all, belief in a higher power is the first step to all kinds of recovery. The Freemasons require a belief in God and ban homosexuals, and they are not at all "religious." The Jaycees profess a belief in God to give meaning and purpose to life. I have no idea how many other groups are like this. The common thread is you have to get over the egotistical view that mankind is the top of everything and instead believe something above is more important.

Quote:
I do agree that they have a right to have their organization how they like (I just wish they would change it, and as somebody who actually experienced all ranks of the organization I feel that I have the ability to have an opinion on such a topic).

I also think it is wrong that the government cut ties with the Scouts. BSA can no longer do training at Army bases which is sad as that was the original purpose of BSA. If it were not for BSA, I probably would never have been so interested in the Army (I often make the analogy that being in the Infantry is like being a professional Boy Scout, lots of camping, lots of Land Navigation, lots of wilderness survival skills).


BSA did become a half-a-feeder group to the armed services. Eagle Scout at least used to be a sure path to being an officer. But you can probably thank the atheists and gays for the cut in ties as they demanded BSA conform to them and the feds sooner or later get pressure to cut the ties. But that is life in the post-boomer world.

Quote:
The fact that BSA accepts homosexuals (as they should), females (which is absurd), and transgenders (which is questionable), but not atheists is silly in my view. If they want to be socially conservatives (they already lost church and gov ties so they have nothing to lose) they should go all in and ban all of it, but accepting everyone except for Atheists/Agnostics (in my view the same thing), seems like they cannot make up their mind on their social positions.


Homosexuals? Sorry, they have no place in a group dedicated to teaching how to live a healthy male life. Transgenders? Nope, same reason. And again, atheists need to find an atheist group. What I never got is why do people demand to be admitted to a group that does not share their views. It would be as if a muslim demanded a gay group renounce homosexuality so they could join.

The Scouts had their mind made up on social issues. But gays agitated and agitated because......well, I do not know why. Perhaps their usual demand to destroy anything that does not shout how great homosexuality is. But that is just one more example of gays shoving their agenda down our throats, which I am sure you deny is their agenda.
The President is a fink.
November 15th, 2019 at 6:26:28 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Shrek
Of course he doesn't get it. He's a typical libbie. 😂😂



Nah, I will give credit as didn't he say he sees the danger of islam?
The President is a fink.
November 15th, 2019 at 7:38:45 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
That does not make it "religious." It just means you need to recognize a higher power. Not a unique position at all, belief in a higher power is the first step to all kinds of recovery. The Freemasons require a belief in God and ban homosexuals, and they are not at all "religious." The Jaycees profess a belief in God to give meaning and purpose to life. I have no idea how many other groups are like this. The common thread is you have to get over the egotistical view that mankind is the top of everything and instead believe something above is more important.



BSA did become a half-a-feeder group to the armed services. Eagle Scout at least used to be a sure path to being an officer. But you can probably thank the atheists and gays for the cut in ties as they demanded BSA conform to them and the feds sooner or later get pressure to cut the ties. But that is life in the post-boomer world.



Homosexuals? Sorry, they have no place in a group dedicated to teaching how to live a healthy male life. Transgenders? Nope, same reason. And again, atheists need to find an atheist group. What I never got is why do people demand to be admitted to a group that does not share their views. It would be as if a muslim demanded a gay group renounce homosexuality so they could join.

The Scouts had their mind made up on social issues. But gays agitated and agitated because......well, I do not know why. Perhaps their usual demand to destroy anything that does not shout how great homosexuality is. But that is just one more example of gays shoving their agenda down our throats, which I am sure you deny is their agenda.


You can make a (questionable) but rational argument about banning gay scout masters (don't agree). But, you can't make a rational argument about banning gay kids, especially if you view homosexuality as a choice. You can ban gay behavior (the same way it is banned to have any kind of sex), but to ban somebody for being gay is not right or rational.

The Freemasons are also religious. I know some former atheists who join and suddenly become huge Christian people.... It is forced religion as a condition of joining a group.
November 16th, 2019 at 12:19:47 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: AZDuffman
That does not make it "religious." It just means you need to recognize a higher power. Not a unique position at all, belief in a higher power is the first step to all kinds of recovery. .


Recovery that doesn't work. AA,
the most notorious group that
uses the 'higher power' nonsense,
has a long time recovery rate
of 8%. 92% of AA members go
back to drinking again and
again. Here's one of the reasons:

"AA starts with the premise that you are broken and you always will be.
You are told you are so pathetic that you can’t hope to fix your problem.
You have to give it to God (or your higher power, which basically means god}."

AA is as close to a religious cult
as you can get. And for most
people, it just doesn't work.
Turning anything over to a
'higher power' is not proactive,
you're not doing anything to
help yourself. There's no higher
power that will do a damn thing
for you, that's why 92% fail. You have
to help you, and take the proactive
steps. Attending AA 'church'
meetings is just a crutch.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 16th, 2019 at 5:08:29 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
You can make a (questionable) but rational argument about banning gay scout masters (don't agree). But, you can't make a rational argument about banning gay kids, especially if you view homosexuality as a choice. You can ban gay behavior (the same way it is banned to have any kind of sex), but to ban somebody for being gay is not right or rational.


Why can't you? If you have a group that is dedicated to making oneself a better man and the group does not believe being gay allows this, then the gay kid is opposed to what the group believes and should not be allowed in from the start. And yet again I ask, why would a gay want to join a group that does not accept that being gay prohibits a healthy life? It is no different than an atheist wanting to join a campus Jewish group. Let the gay kid find a club that matches their beliefs and choices in life.

Quote:
The Freemasons are also religious. I know some former atheists who join and suddenly become huge Christian people.... It is forced religion as a condition of joining a group.


Well, good for those former atheists. But they joined under false pretenses as a belief in God is a requirement to join. But that does not make it "religious." Their activities are wide and varied. They are about being a secret society and yes, lots of their stuff comes from the Jews. There is a Bible in the center of the lodge. But in a muslim lodge that Bible will be a koran. In some areas, black Baptists join one lodge and white Protestants join another (to the annoyance of many a SJW, but that is another issue.) My point being that if it was "religious" it would be one religion, top to bottom. It might have some religious components, but only as part of the broader mission. So if an atheist does not like that they can go join some other group.

You seem to believe anything that believes in God is "religious." That is not the case. Habitat for Humanity says a quick prayer before they commence their work for the day. Does that make them "religious?" Lots of NFL teams will say a prayer before a game. Does that make them "religious?" Or does it just mean all these groups share the belief that mankind is just a blip that is a part of something greater?
The President is a fink.