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Is math natural or synthetic?

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December 31st, 2018 at 7:38:00 PM permalink
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011	Quote: pew Who is trained in infinity? . People who study math and physics, and astrophysics. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.

December 31st, 2018 at 8:24:27 PM permalink

FrGamble

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596

Quote: Evenbob
People who study math and physics,
and astrophysics.

Bob, what use is the concept of infinity to the physical sciences? If it represents something larger than can be counted or observed what possible use is it in astrophysics? It is not a real thing, it is mathematical and philosophical term. Nothing material or in space and time can truly be infinite. Think about it.

Secondly, why am I blocked but not pew? I find that terribly unfair. Even though you are always wrong when you talk about Christianity I still try at least to be nice to you. Anyway, what do you think about his excellent ideas concerning the necessity of something that is not energy, matter, or bound by space and time?

“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (

December 31st, 2018 at 9:48:20 PM permalink
pew Member since: Jan 8, 2013 Threads: 4 Posts: 1232	Quote: Evenbob People who study math and physics, and astrophysics. Oh. I thought you were talking about philosophers and theologians. My bad.

December 31st, 2018 at 9:50:28 PM permalink

pew

Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232

Quote: FrGamble
Bob, what use is the concept of infinity to the physical sciences? If it represents something larger than can be counted or observed what possible use is it in astrophysics? It is not a real thing, it is mathematical and philosophical term. Nothing material or in space and time can truly be infinite. Think about it.

Secondly, why am I blocked but not pew? I find that terribly unfair. Even though you are always wrong when you talk about Christianity I still try at least to be nice to you. Anyway, what do you think about his excellent ideas concerning the necessity of something that is not energy, matter, or bound by space and time?

Are you sure you're blocked? I think EB needs you a lot more than you need him.

December 31st, 2018 at 11:52:25 PM permalink
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011	Quote: pew Oh. I thought you were talking about philosophers and theologians. My bad. Philosophy and theology are not science. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.

December 31st, 2018 at 11:55:44 PM permalink
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011	Quote: pew Are you sure you're blocked? I think EB needs you a lot more than you need him. That's why I blocked him, because I 'need' him so much. I've been around a lot longer than he has, he's still wet behind the ears. I've heard everything he has to say 14 times over. The well is dry.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.

January 1st, 2019 at 7:05:35 AM permalink
pew Member since: Jan 8, 2013 Threads: 4 Posts: 1232	Quote: Evenbob That's why I blocked him, because I 'need' him so much. I've been around a lot longer than he has, he's still wet behind the ears. I've heard everything he has to say 14 times over. The well is dry.. Maybe, but you still can't seem to get him out of your head.

January 1st, 2019 at 8:11:42 AM permalink

Dalex64

Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687

Quote: AZDuffman
The "infinite amount of prime numbers" thing got me thinking about this one.

Is math natural or is is man made? Think about a few things. The universe is finite. Everything is made of atoms which are made of quarks and probably something smaller yet. But there is a finite amount of it all. It is one big number of atoms, but it is finite. That matter cannot be created nor destroyed should prove this.

Numbers, OTOH, are infinite. We have not named most of them, but we have named a googolplex of them. Maybe more names, I don't know where after googolplex-one, etc, would logically stop. But no matter how you slice it, math can count *more* than anything in nature. Therefore, can it be natural?

While some parts of math, geometry especially, are clearly present in nature, does nature "care" about prime numbers?

If I had brought this up in school as a kid, would it have gotten me kicked out of class?

Math is man-made, synthetic, ephemeral, however you want to put it.

Nature doesn't care about math, but we invented math as a base language to help us describe the things you mentioned in a quantifiable way.

I think it shows how well math describes the universe when you can find examples things like perfect squares, fibbonacci sequences, primes in nature.

Sciences like physics use math as their foundation. But, that too is man-made - the universe does not follow the laws of physics, instead, physics describes the laws of the universe.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan

January 1st, 2019 at 10:10:23 AM permalink
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011	Quote: pew Maybe, but you still can't seem to get him out of your head. I didn't bring this up, you did. I spend zero time thinking about it unless somebody mentions it. That ship has so sailed.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.

January 1st, 2019 at 10:13:04 AM permalink
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011	Quote: Dalex64 Math is man-made, synthetic, ephemeral, however you want to put it. . Agreed. It's like asking if Spanish or German are 'natural'. They're manmade languages, just like math is. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.

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