Happy Easter!

April 2nd, 2018 at 3:46:28 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
who have it all come apart because of some hidden sin or moral failing.


They come apart because what
you teach is impossible to live,
and it's supposed to be impossible.
Failure keeps them coming back
for more. I notice you aren't
asking for the details of people
I know who's lives were ruined
by your Church. It's just as well,
I already know all your excuses.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 2nd, 2018 at 4:03:51 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Quote: Evenbob
I don't trust anybody.


That doesn't surprise me.

Quote:
Trust but verify, wasn't that Reagan's motto?


I'm sure Reagan had lots of friends he trusted. He even trusted his wife to let an astrologer control his schedule. The "trust but verify" thing was referring to the Soviet Union, and I agree with him on that, although it was a misnomer. If he required verification, then it means he didn't trust them.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
April 2nd, 2018 at 4:20:23 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Wizard
That doesn't surprise me.


Because the older you get you
find you can trust people more
than ever? No, you cannot.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 2nd, 2018 at 4:23:14 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
They come apart because what
you teach is impossible to live,
and it's supposed to be impossible.


What is impossible about accepting the free gift of God's unconditional love?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
April 2nd, 2018 at 5:22:47 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
What is impossible about accepting the free gift of God's unconditional love?
\

Acceptance is easy peasy, living it
not so much. But it's by design an
unattainable goal, Xtions are expected
to always 'fall short', as they put it.
Keeps them groveling back for more.
This way of teaching always works,
promise more than can possibly be
delivered and people will always blame
themselves and not you. Like I said,
insidious..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 2nd, 2018 at 5:23:28 PM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 6
Posts: 1600
Quote: FrGamble
What is impossible about accepting the free gift of God's unconditional love?


Father,

Wherever you go, there you are.

If people weren't flawed, you wouldn't have a calling.

EvenBob would argue that religion created guilt in order to control the populace. I think that argument has some merit, at least to focus and identify anti-social behavior to ourselves. However, civilized societies predate many current religions. Guilt and shame, and blaming and shaming and shunning, are all useful corrective reactions beyond a religious application.

Wizard even has his own system. I think he took them down, but he used to have several videos on line shaming his children into changing their ways. No catechism required; just a camera recording the truth of what the kid was saying or doing, to see for one's self after a period of reflection.

So God's gift of unconditional love becomes a terrible burden. Because we are unworthy, it is an everlasting challenge that we all fail. And so the guilt and shame sets in, on an endless loop.

Religion would be better served if Jesus had had a few flaws. He should have lusted after a woman, been intemperate, insulted someone, something God could have forgiven him, and then accepted him into heaven on everyone's behalf.

IDK. Just thinking out loud, about things that can't be covered in a few sentences.

Edit. Although this falls under EBs post, we were writing and posting at the same time, and I did not see his before mine.

Interesting we said much the same thing.
Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has
April 2nd, 2018 at 5:31:46 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Evenbob

This way of teaching always works,
.


Zen even uses it. They ask questions
that have no answers, literally. There
is no right answer, only wrong ones.
You pass the test by showing the
progress you made on trying to
answer this question. You're reward
is another question. Forever, if
necessary.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 2nd, 2018 at 6:51:42 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Quote: beachbumbabs
Wizard even has his own system. I think he took them down, but he used to have several videos on line shaming his children into changing their ways. No catechism required; just a camera recording the truth of what the kid was saying or doing, to see for one's self after a period of reflection.


Those videos are now password protected. I will say it worked but I've had some parents condemn me for it. If my daughter ever has another temper tantrum, all I have to do is get out my smart phone and say, "I wonder how many views this one will get."
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
April 2nd, 2018 at 9:03:49 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Wizard
Those videos are now password protected. I will say it worked but I've had some parents condemn me for it.


That usually means you're into something.
There's a way they train puppies now that
is coddling and painstaking and a pain in
the ass, all so as not to 'traumatize' the
little angel.

When I was having trouble with my pup,
I finally went old school on him with a
rolled up magazine and had him trained
in an afternoon. He never peed in the
house again. When I reported this on
a dog forum, the women there went insane
with rage. Really scared me, I never told
anyone about it again.

So you're probably on the right track if
you're making women angry.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 3rd, 2018 at 10:28:18 AM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 6
Posts: 1600
Quote: beachbumbabs
Father,

Wherever you go, there you are.

If people weren't flawed, you wouldn't have a calling.

EvenBob would argue that religion created guilt in order to control the populace. I think that argument has some merit, at least to focus and identify anti-social behavior to ourselves. However, civilized societies predate many current religions. Guilt and shame, and blaming and shaming and shunning, are all useful corrective reactions beyond a religious application.

Wizard even has his own system. I think he took them down, but he used to have several videos on line shaming his children into changing their ways. No catechism required; just a camera recording the truth of what the kid was saying or doing, to see for one's self after a period of reflection.

So God's gift of unconditional love becomes a terrible burden. Because we are unworthy, it is an everlasting challenge that we all fail. And so the guilt and shame sets in, on an endless loop.

Religion would be better served if Jesus had had a few flaws. He should have lusted after a woman, been intemperate, insulted someone, something God could have forgiven him, and then accepted him into heaven on everyone's behalf.

IDK. Just thinking out loud, about things that can't be covered in a few sentences.


FrG,

This hit on a key aspect for me, one that goes deep, what I said to you. I would like you to respond, very much, though I appreciated that others responded, too.

The whole giving and receiving thing has been a source of great pain in my life. Generosity begets resentment. Gratitude is not a virtue, it's a grudge. Whether we're talking God, Jesus, or between people.

I would really like to sort this out. Perhaps you can help.

Makers, takers, fakers...people close to me seem to fall into one of those 3 categories. No exclusions, few mixed impulses.
Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has