FORTY TWO

Quote: petroglyph

I have wondered where cults get all their followers, there seems to be no shortage of people who want to completely turn over their will and possessions.

"People want to be told what to do so badly that they'll listen to anyone."--Don Draper

It was a free-love cult for those with money or potential inheritances etc. They never wanted street people until they moved to Oregon, from California of course, and wanted ballot box stuffers. Middle class members were recruited. All cults seem to grow as Ponzi schemes do. The later members finance the lifestyles of the initial members who are 'revered non-workers' while new drones are donating all worldly goods and their time based on their dreams of being elevated to a higher status later.

The Indian Guru with all those Rolls Royces was a figure-head after a while who kept his mouth shut before his followers and was told to keep it shut in meetings.

Later an Indian real estate investor pretty much did the same thing in several towns but abandoned any cult or belief trappings. He simply bussed druggie, welfare types into town, bought up the real estate with the welfare money and then booted them all out. No need for politics or red robes or anything, just selected small towns that had no defenses anyway. Once he bought the first few hotels or apartment buildings in town, everyone else sold out to him.

Quote: AZDuffman

"People want to be told what to do so badly that they'll listen to anyone."--Don Draper

That describes organized religion in
all it's glory. Why think when it's
already been done for you thousands
of years ago. If they were wrong, surely
it would have been ferreted out by
now. Or so you tell yourself, so you
can avoid thinking..

The question would be " Is Buffalo representative of all areas in the USA"?

Are the priests from the Buffalo area? Are birthdates skewed such as might indicate season of conception or winter-time lack of oxygen/exercise leads to homosexuality? Did the church focus on orientation or openness of activities?

Quote: odiousgambit

As far as it is concerned I think the RC Church should had zero tolerance for homosexual behavior long, long ago.

I think they should have full tolerance for it, as long as it is between consenting adults. Let's not kid ourselves, any profession that requires abstinence from women is going to be clock full of homosexuals. If you show me a heterosexual priest (FrG exempted, of course), I would lay long odds he is cheating on his abstinence vow somehow.

The bottom line is that normal young men of full of testosterone and need an outlet for it somehow. If you prohibit sexual relations, you're going to have a mess on your hand. Everybody knows it.

Quote: Wizard

I think they should have full tolerance for it, as long as it is between consenting adults.

I have to think those who wanted tolerance expected that any sexual activity that broke through a priest's vow of abstinence would involve other adults; when this expectation was disappointed heads were stuck in the sand ... perhaps for thousands of years. Today, however, they are faced with headlines like "42 former Buffalo priests accused of child sex abuse" ... link below [but I just was looking for an example, not much to see there otherwise] . Child sex abuse. Nice. Tolerance unrewarded.

Look, to be a heterosexual is to have bigoted opinions about gays; exceptions to that rule largely come from an effort to reform one's bigotry, I have to think. Well, I am sorry to say one such I still nurse is about the evident gay proclivity to seek underage partners. Straight men also have a natural proclivity for young, nubile women, teenagers certainly not excluded. I'm sure it comes from nature, it's encoded in our instincts to pick out those of the opposite sex who will be the best choices for the reproduction of the species. I wouldn't have expected this preference for youth to be what gays were experiencing; but I can see where it comes from.

Not all straight men can be trusted to leave the under-aged alone either, yet it is my bias to think the problem is worse with the gays. Is "42 male protestant ministers and Rabbis in Buffalo area denounced as child molesters" just a suppressed headline we should be seeing as well? I don't think so.

It's hard not to be judgemental. And, yes, again, generalization does not give universal coverage, so any individual who, say, wanted to be a priest ... well, should there be any assumption if he is gay that he might be undesirable, as a potential molester? Today, everyone would decry such a policy, surely.

On the other hand, no good deed goes unpunished. The 'full tolerance' you advocate has indeed been tried and punished.


http://wivb.com/2018/03/22/new-details-about-42-former-buffalo-priests-accused-of-child-sex-abuse/

All of this is based on some Pope long ago who did not want children to ever have a claim on church funds. So they continue a 'no sex' policy but in actuality its not really followed. The only differences are in the sex of the so-called victims. I'm sure the nuns are rather high in their sexual activities also. We have absurd ages of consent and we have absurd social customs in many areas. I would imagine that actual coercion is rare, its more social coercion which stems from placing con men on a pedestal but only if they wear a collar turned the wrong way round. I think the most notorious Boston priest had dozens of male and female victims. As with most sex, its recreation not procreation. So gay sex is not all that much different.

As if outing 42 pedophiles wasn't enough, they apparently inadvertently listed one Priest who was not implicated by accident due to a similar name. You think in a matter of this magnitude someone would have double checked.....

Just a couple of thoughts.

I was stuck by the number of priests on that list that began their ministry in the 60s. This is something others have noticed in other places as well. It wasn't just the culture of the times, but the Church was going through big changes in Vatican II. The formation of priests during that time was notoriously bad.

I continue to maintain that celibacy is not the cause of pedophilia or acting out sexually in other ways. Letting priests get married and have children of there own just makes them part of the largest group of those who sexually abuse others. It is sin that is the cause of these evils.

Finally, I can count on one hand the number of gay priests I know. They all entered into the seminary in the 60s and they are all wonderful priests. The percentages thrown around earlier do not match my experience at all.

Quote: FrGamble

Finally, I can count on one hand the number of gay priests I know..

You mean there might be some that
are hiding their Gayness? 60% of
US priests are Gay, you know more
than a handful, you just don't know
it.