PA congressional districts

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February 13th, 2018 at 6:37:35 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 807
Posts: 9717
Quote: Dalex64
representation should be proportional to the populations of votes cast in the state

Local elections may not follow the same party line as the Presidential election. Here are the most extreme districts of "inconsistent voting".

Congressional Districts that elected a Democratic Congressmen and also voted for Trump
MN-07 Peterson, Collin 30.8%
MN-08 Nolan, Rick 15.6%
PA-17 Cartwright, Matt 10.1%
MN-01 Walz, Tim 14.9%
WI-03 Kind, Ron 4.5%

Congressional Districts that elected a Republican Congressmen and also voted for Hillary
FL-27 Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana 19.7%
FL-26 Curbelo, Carlos 16.1%
CA-21 Valadao, David 15.5%
VA-10 Comstock, Barbara 10.0%
MN-03 Paulsen, Erik 9.4%

Being a Democrat or Republican in Minnesota is somewhat unique. You have the most extreme state for "inconsistent voting".

The Minnesota Democratic–Farmer–Labor Party (DFL) is a social liberal political party in the U.S. state of Minnesota. It is affiliated with the United States Democratic Party. Formed by a merger of the Minnesota Democratic Party and the social democratic Minnesota Farmer–Labor Party in 1944, the DFL is one of only two state Democratic party affiliates of a different name (the other being the North Dakota Democratic-Nonpartisan League Party).

In 1989, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen became the first Cuban American and Latina elected to Congress. She was also the first Republican woman elected to the House from Florida, and is currently the most senior Republican woman in the U.S. House. Ros-Lehtinen gave the first Republican response to the State of the Union address in Spanish in 2011, and gave the third in 2014.On April 30, 2017, Ros-Lehtinen announced that she would not be running for re-election in 2018. Her district has become very pro Democratic since 1989, and she is widely expected to be succeeded by a Democrat.
February 13th, 2018 at 6:40:25 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 106
Posts: 7865
Quote: Pacomartin
Republicans actually love minority-majority districts and support them whenever possible. It guarantees that Democratic votes go to waste.


I would not say they "go to waste." They count same as any other. But they do guarantee you get crazies like Maxine Waters or that goofball who said Guam might "tip over." Even in local places, I saw one where some (black female) councilperson was complaining about Arizona and patrols for illegal immigrants. She said, "it is not even a border state!" Right after the senior guy, whatever you call the one who runs the meetings, corrected the record.

If not for minority-majority, most of these people would never get elected. Clearly the machine wants some crazies.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
February 13th, 2018 at 6:54:48 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 807
Posts: 9717

California 14th district is 33.9% Asian, but their congresswoman, Jackie Speier is not Asian. The Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus (CAPAC), unlike its sister groups, the Congressional Black Caucus and Congressional Hispanic Caucus, includes members who represent large Asian populations., but are not Asian themselves.

Steve Cohen from Memphis has represented one of the districts with the 2nd highest percentage of African Americans since he was elected in 2006, but he is not permitted to join the Congressional Black Caucus because he personally is not black. Steve Cohen's exclusion is acknowledged to be racist, but justified because AA have suffered exclusion by race for decades.
February 13th, 2018 at 8:04:47 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 2356
Quote: AZDuffman
It is proportional, the thing is that representatives are also supposed to represent a "region" of some kind. The region should have commonality. When you get outside the dense areas, you deal with more land.


Yes, but the regions/districts represent groups of people, not areas of land.

My issue is not that some districts are larger than others in area, it is that one group, by the virtue of owning more land, is getting more representation proportionally to another group that occupies less area in higher density.

Without making more regions than are currently allowed, there will always be people who are in a minority in their region.

All I am suggesting is the democrat/republican split in representatives should be proportional to the republican/democrat membership in the state.

Heck, my newest less-imperfect system would have:
everyone in a party,
have no district lines,
have each party put up a full slate of candidates (so 18 in pensylvania)
have everyone vote for 18 candidates (one check box for everyone in a party is fine),
total the results by party,
distribute the 18 seats proportionally by party,
assign the top vote getters in each party to the available seats for their party.

party primaries can have their own districts if they wish.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
February 13th, 2018 at 8:29:38 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 807
Posts: 9717
Quote: Dalex64
All I am suggesting is the democrat/republican split in representatives should be proportional to the republican/democrat membership in the state.
Heck, my newest less-imperfect system would have:


I think you are confusing the House of Representatives with the Senate.


2016 5-D, 13-R
2014 5-D, 13-R
2012 5-D, 13-R

2010 6-D, 13-R
2008 12-D, 7-R DEMOCRAT
2006 11-D, 8-R DEMOCRAT
2004 7 -D, 12-R
2002 7 -D, 12-R
February 13th, 2018 at 8:41:00 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 2356
What? How so?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
February 13th, 2018 at 8:41:25 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 106
Posts: 7865
Quote: Dalex64
Yes, but the regions/districts represent groups of people, not areas of land.

My issue is not that some districts are larger than others in area, it is that one group, by the virtue of owning more land, is getting more representation proportionally to another group that occupies less area in higher density.


How is it "representing land?" If Allegheny County (Pittsburgh) has the same number of people as several counties in the north central region and each district has one rep, they have equal representation. As long as populations in the districts are in balance, people, not land, are being represented.

Quote:
Without making more regions than are currently allowed, there will always be people who are in a minority in their region.


Yup, non-liberals in Allegheny County. (Pittsburgh.) It happens.

Quote:
All I am suggesting is the democrat/republican split in representatives should be proportional to the republican/democrat membership in the state.


A quota system? The problem with "at large" elections is that people not in the dense areas do not get contact with their representative. The urban areas will get all the attention and the rural areas will be locked out. The entire idea of having a "representative" is have someone who represents you! An at-large election that results in an assembly mostly in Pittsburgh/Philly assemblymen is not going to represent the person from Erie, and surely not the people in Pennsatucky.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
February 13th, 2018 at 8:53:12 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 807
Posts: 9717
Quote: AZDuffman
A quota system? The problem with "at large" elections is that people not in the dense areas do not get contact with their representative.


We have a house of congress, the Senate, that represents the entire state. The founding fathers were looking at a country that was entirely rural. They were against political parties. In a million years they could not have imagined a political situation that exists today.

The nation's smallest, and most dense, congressional district, is New York's 13th Congressional District. The tiny 13th occupies only 10.25 square miles of land area.


The 13th district voted Democrat for President in the last three elections by well over 90%
February 13th, 2018 at 9:18:48 AM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 1432
Quote: AZDuffman
I would not say they "go to waste." They count same as any other. But they do guarantee you get crazies like Maxine Waters or that goofball who said Guam might "tip over." Even in local places, I saw one where some (black female) councilperson was complaining about Arizona and patrols for illegal immigrants. She said, "it is not even a border state!" Right after the senior guy, whatever you call the one who runs the meetings, corrected the record.

If not for minority-majority, most of these people would never get elected. Clearly the machine wants some crazies.


You make my point for me. Those representatives don't represent the people of that state in parity. They represent the landowners. If drawing wagon-wheel districts out from the cities apportioned by registration, it would at least be one method of getting roughly representative percentages of people in the state. Square miles do not equal square deal. Democrats are not being equally represented in PA. Their Congressional votes are each worth roughly 1/2 what each Republican vote is worth under current districting.

Change some minds. Change some Democrats to Republicans. Then, 13-5 is fine, if 70% or so of the state is Republican. But doing it with artificial grids that make it ridiculously lopsided against the MAJORITY (large plurality if counting all registrations) party is corrupt and dishonest.
Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has
February 13th, 2018 at 9:40:02 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 106
Posts: 7865
Quote: beachbumbabs
You make my point for me. Those representatives don't represent the people of that state in parity. They represent the landowners. If drawing wagon-wheel districts out from the cities apportioned by registration, it would at least be one method of getting roughly representative percentages of people in the state. Square miles do not equal square deal. Democrats are not being equally represented in PA. Their Congressional votes are each worth roughly 1/2 what each Republican vote is worth under current districting.



????????

Are you under the impression that the areas outside the cities are just a few landed gentry, with huge tracts of land? Again, it is about your representative is supposed to represent your interests. This is best done geographically. Trust me, if Pittsburgh was chopped up into a wagon wheel, the NAACP and every other liberal group would be screaming that "Blacks are not represented!"

You seem to have a bias against folks who prefer a rural area or smaller city rather than a dense area.


Quote:
Change some minds. Change some Democrats to Republicans. Then, 13-5 is fine, if 70% or so of the state is Republican. But doing it with artificial grids that make it ridiculously lopsided against the MAJORITY (large plurality if counting all registrations) party is corrupt and dishonest.


So are things like cumulative voting. But that was allowed in many places. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Regionally is the fairest way to do it, to insure people are as close to their Rep as possible. If Democrats were not so far out of the mainstream, they would compete better in less urban areas.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
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