Will God Survive Science

Quote: FrGamble

What did I say after you gave me the name of Bart Ehrman? Of course I knew who he was.

ROTFLMAO!!!

You're something else...

Quote: Dalex64

It is not. remember a strawman is giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

My assertion: the church has opposed scientific views that contradict with their beliefs.
My evidence: “We pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo… have rendered yourself vehemently suspected by this Holy Office of heresy, that is, of having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the world.”
QED (Thus it is demonstrated)

What you have demonstrated is that in this one case the Church did so.

What I am arguing is that this one case does not mean that the Church systematically or as a matter of practice did so. In many other instances the Church on this same issue of heliocentrism did not declare it to be false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures.

Quote:

However what you are doing IS a strawman. you are suggesting that I am saying ALL scientific advances contrary to church teachings are fought by the church, and then refute that. that is NOT my argument.

Pardon me. When you mentioned that for every case I present the Church supporting science you said I had blindfolds on for other cases when the Church did not. I took that to mean you were extrapolating from the Galileo case something more than a singular failure of the Church at the time based on reasons not altogether scientific. You have indeed demonstrated that the Church made the wrong and incorrect proclamation in the case of Galileo.

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obviously the church statement that the earth was the center of everything was not true, so yeah, one truth here is not contradicting another truth. however the church's untruthful belief was contradicted by a truthful belief, and also, the church believed in an untruth and confined a man for the rest of his life.

Again this incorrect statement of the Church was colored by a contentious personal feud, bitterness, and pride on all parties.

Please tell me that this is true

“We pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo… have rendered yourself vehemently suspected by this Holy Office of heresy, that is, of having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the world.”

and it is true that the earth moves around the sun.

This again is really simple. The church doctrine was wrong. That is more than one personal feud with a scientist. It was a long-held belief.

The. Church. Was. Wrong.

That statement issued by the Church was wrong. As have been many other statements made by the Church during its some two thousand years of existence. It was wrong not only because the Earth moves around the Sun, but also because it is not in the purview of theology to pronounce on scientific matters. It would be akin to a scientist doing theology.
So yes, the Church was wrong in many ways in making that statement.

Now that this has been settled I still maintain that throughout history the Catholic Church has been a great supporter of science.

Quote: FrGamble

throughout history the Catholic Church has been a great supporter of science.

That's the story the Vatican is pushing
now so it must be true. LOL

Bob, just look at the facts and don't push your own agenda.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob, just look at the facts

The real facts or the Vatican 'facts'. They are
often far from being the same.

The real facts of course.

Quote: FrGamble

The real facts of course.

But you only know ersatz Vatican facts.
They have been rewriting history since
Vatican II and are really ramping it up
now. Articles about it are everywhere.
They're even rewriting the history of
the US, making the part they played
far larger and more important than
it was.

Since Vatican II, huh? You know that was just in the 60s. I'd love to see some of the crackpot articles you are reading where you get your alternative "facts". I imagine you would be too embarrassed to post them if they exist.