North Korea -- What should be do?

Quote: kenarman

So what is your solution Nareed.

Did you read the part about Trump keeping his facial anus shut?

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I have no solution but don't truly believe that N. Korea can be talked out of their nuclear weapons and letting them continue and keep improving them worries the shit out of me.

A good beginning would be for the US to admit it made a grievous error in toppling or helping to topple two-bit dictators who had given up nukes and other WMDs. If you recall all the way back to 2003, no WMDs, besides those inventoried after Gulf War I, were ever found in Iraq.

Gaddafi over in Libya, though, gave up his WMDs and incipient nuclear program around that time. 8 years later the US helped to topple him.

But it's not just two-bit dictators. Ukraine gave up their nukes and got a part of their country annexed by a four-bit dictator.

So no nukes can get you invaded, toppled and executed. That's not exactly incentive for Kim and other two-bit players to get rid of their nukes or stop trying to acquire them.

Past that, trump really ought to STFU and let the adults handle things. Escalating the rhetoric, and making it personal, while playing brinkmanship is a singularly terrible idea. Trump doesn't know how to do anything else. He's either at your throat or at your feet.

Quote: Nareed

Did you read the part about Trump keeping his facial anus shut?




A good beginning would be for the US to admit it made a grievous error in toppling or helping to topple two-bit dictators who had given up nukes and other WMDs. If you recall all the way back to 2003, no WMDs, besides those inventoried after Gulf War I, were ever found in Iraq.

Gaddafi over in Libya, though, gave up his WMDs and incipient nuclear program around that time. 8 years later the US helped to topple him.

But it's not just two-bit dictators. Ukraine gave up their nukes and got a part of their country annexed by a four-bit dictator.

So no nukes can get you invaded, toppled and executed. That's not exactly incentive for Kim and other two-bit players to get rid of their nukes or stop trying to acquire them.

Past that, trump really ought to STFU and let the adults handle things. Escalating the rhetoric, and making it personal, while playing brinkmanship is a singularly terrible idea. Trump doesn't know how to do anything else. He's either at your throat or at your feet.

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments Nareed. Is your stand then that we let N. Korea fully develop their nuclear weapons and talk and hope for the best?

Quote: kenarman

Is your stand then that we let N. Korea fully develop their nuclear weapons and talk and hope for the best?

To begin with one ought to recognize existing facts. NK already has developed nukes, and may have as many as a dozen. There's nothing to be done about that.

Next, one cannot go back in time and un-topple Gaddafi or un-invade Iraq. But there's the deal with Iran in force now. Tossing it would be insane when you're trying to work out a similar deal with NK. So keep to it and try to work out other issues in some other way. Or you may as well tell Kim he needs a large fleet of ICBMs with megaton warheads if he wants to avoid invasion and execution.

So:

1) Keep Trump silent on the matter.

2) Get the story off the headlines

3) Start talking with the Chinese and take their concerns seriously. As I said, they regard a nuclear-armed NK as less troublesome for them than a collapsed North Korea, while the US has the exact opposite view. Flood of refugees aside, China also doesn't want US troops stationed near its borders. Before anything can be done about NK, an understanding needs to be had with China. and the same needs to be done with South Korea and, to a lesser extent, Japan. Any war on the peninsula will mean mass casualties and massive damage to the South. Don't think you can just launch a war and South Korea will accommodate hundreds of thousands of US troops (when, actually, refusing to help the US is the one chance they'd have to avoid retaliation by the North).

4) Talk to Kim and see what he wants. Make it clear you're willing to risk millions of South Koreans (see above) to prevent him from using any nukes in any way, or to blackmail you with them. Offer whatever guarantees you can that you will neither invade the North nor remove him from power.

Is this ideal? Not in the slightest. But 1) there are scores of two-bit dictators all over the world oppressing millions of people, and you'll never get rid of all; 2) If you want a magical solution that destroys Kim's nukes, removes him power, and transform NK overnight into an advanced state like South Korea, without incurring many casualties, then write a fantasy novel about it.

There are no ideal options to be had.

Oh, and:

5) Seriously Trump needs to STFU and let the adults handle the situation.

Quote: Nareed

Oh, and:

5) Seriously Trump needs to STFU and let the adults handle the situation.

Or it could be that N. Korea might respond better to somebody that speaks the same language as them. We will all find out eventually, hopefully for longer than just watching the pretty fireworks. Time to max out the credit cards if it goes sideways you won't have to pay them down.

Not funny.

Someone else preparing for war.

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Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro called on his nation's military leaders Tuesday to prepare for war against the U.S. days after the Trump administration banned Venezuelan officials from entering the nation. 

And it's not so much that, but this:

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Russia has defended Maduro in recent months, going so far as to accuse Trump of preparing for an invasion of Caracas. "We are strongly against unilateral sanctions against sovereign states," Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said in August. "We will carefully analyze the implications of the sanctions imposed by the United States, and their possible effect on the interests of Russia and Russian businesses. We can already say that they will not affect our willingness to expand and strengthen cooperation with the friendly nation of Venezuela and its people."

While I don't agree that we should always tread lightly with such problems necessarily, Trump is capable of stirring up multiple hornet's nest in a multiplying effect, instead of careful picking and choosing his fights.

Quote: rxwine

Someone else preparing for war.

And it doesn't really matter who with. The world bank will create an enemy that is so dangerous to the existence of the FRN, that we must use the the full force of the MIC to fight them. And the goal really isn't to win the military conflict, the goal is to support the petro dollar, and those that are in charge.

Iraq, Afg, Libya, Syria and on and on have never been a threat to the physical well being of the US. The threat they pose is to the dollar.


NK, is not a threat, we need them to be a threat, so we can rally round the flag. One good thing about going to war with Venezuela versus NK, is it's a lot closer.

What possible reason do we have for blowing the ***K out of Yemen? Why do so many need killin? The Hegelian Dialect.

Quote: rxwine

Someone else preparing for war.

I think it's mostly for show.

But you can't blame them, too much, after the Orange Twit threatened military action against Venezuela earlier this year.

What i really want to know is: when is it permissible to threaten to attack a country that's not even remotely a threat to yours?

Quote: Nareed

What i really want to know is: when is it permissible to threaten to attack a country that's not even remotely a threat to yours?

You will have to ask Obama he declared Venezuela a 'national security threat" in 2015 and a declared a "national emergency" to deal with them in January of this year.

North Korea is apparently so confused by Trump that it's asking US experts for help

So, whatever Trump is doing, it is working and working well! It is easy to see what he is doing. If your enemy is angry, irritate him! If you are close, appear far away. If you are far away, appear close.

Up until now, N Korea's leaders could probably predict what the USA response was before the POTUS. Act up. Get threatened. Get aid/concessions. Now they are not so sure.