Easter: Message of Jesus?

Quote: FrGamble

You can refrain from mocking His sacrifice .

Over 100K people died on the cross,
what about their sacrifice? You think
Jesus is special because he said he
was god. Other than his say so, you
have nothing. If you do, you have
never presented it. Your case is thin,
to say the least.

It's a very important fact that the Jews,
that Jesus came to save, don't even
recognize him as more than a man.
You can't just brush that aside as
nothing, they have very compelling
reasons for doing do.

Quote: Evenbob

Good question. The myth says he no longer
had an earthly body, they couldn't kill him
again.

What are you talking about? Jesus was resurrected in the flesh and had an earthly and glorified body. He ate with His disciples after the Resurrection and showed to them the marks of the nails and the spear.

You might as well be asking why didn't He send legions of angels to wipe Pontius and all worldly powers off the map in the blink of an eye. In choosing to send the Holy Spirit to His disciples to go evanglize the world the same effect of defeating Pontius, the Religious authorities at the time, and the empire took place. He did appear to the most zealous of anti-Christians at the time, a yound man named Saul. That is all He had to do to make him a more effective witness and evangelizer than Pontius ever could have been. You ask this question as if Jesus' plan failed and it would have worked if only He would have done something differently. I don't know what history you are reading or what inside knowledge you have as to how it could have worked out better. Maybe you should write a story about what would have happened if Jesus would have done this or that and what would have happened. It is interesting to think about but in examing history we should probably deal with what really happened versus the what ifs.

Quote: Evenbob

Over 100K people died on the cross,
what about their sacrifice? You think
Jesus is special because he said he
was god.

That and He was Resurrected.

Quote:

Other than his say so, you
have nothing.

That and history. Do you think my saying so and that of a small group of followers saying so would have made a difference if it wasn't true?

Quote: FrGamble

You might as well be asking why didn't He send legions of angels to wipe Pontius and all worldly powers off the map in the blink of an eye. In choosing to send the Holy Spirit to His disciples to go evanglize the world the same effect of defeating Pontius, the Religious authorities at the time, and the empire took place. He did appear to the most zealous of anti-Christians at the time, a yound man named Saul. That is all He had to do to make him a more effective witness and evangelizer than Pontius ever could have been. You ask this question as if Jesus' plan failed and it would have worked if only He would have done something differently. I don't know what history you are reading or what inside knowledge you have as to how it could have worked out better. Maybe you should write a story about what would have happened if Jesus would have done this or that and what would have happened. It is interesting to think about but in examing history we should probably deal with what really happened versus the what ifs.

If Buddha ideas, the Hindu gods, and Allah weren't REAL as described they wouldn't have millions of followers.

It can't be denied they weren't also successful.

Something is always wrong with your justifications.

Quote: FrGamble

had an earthly and glorified body.

I assumed the glorified body that
walked thru walls and could be
invisible if he wanted, could also
not be killed again. Details of
myths can be tricky.
.

Quote: FrGamble

That and He was Resurrected.

Which is as much provable fact as
any other myth.

Quote:

Do you think my saying so and that of a small group of followers saying so would have made a difference if it wasn't true?

The number of times you play this meaningless
card has become staggering. You really think
your religion is true because a bunch of other
people believe it is. The number of times this
has been addressed here is becoming problematic.
It's 90% of your argument: It's been believed for
so long, by so many people, it has to be true.

Then we can say that about all the major religions,
can't we, by your standards. Hinduism has been
around twice as long as the Jesus story, it must
be twice as true.

You keep making comparisons between things like Hinduism and Christianity so I don't think you are getting it. Christianity is an incarnational religion meaning it is historical. Jesus lived, died, was buried, and rose in a specific place and time. Unlike these mystical religions it exposes itself to be proven wrong. From it's outset all one would need is to produce a body, get one of the Apostles or eyewitnesses to the Resurrection to recount. They tried and failed. They also thought just wait it out. Jesus was not the first to claim to be the Messiah. We never hear about anyone else because they all die out literally and figuratively. Jesus does not and you have no explanation other than to blithely repeat it is a myth when everything shows you it is not. Your lack of understanding the real issue or argument is beyond problematic. I'm worried you are not just being obtuse but are actually willfully choosing to ignore anything that challenges you.

Quote: FrGamble

Jesus was not the first to claim to be the Messiah. We never hear about anyone else because they all die out literally and figuratively. Jesus does not

And you do it yet again. It's really the
only argument you have. The Jesus
movement found legs, mostly thru
coercion and intimidation and outright
forced conversion, is still around, so
that makes it legit. The Church grew
wealthy thru theft of property and
resources, could fund itself, and became
the most feared and powerful entity
for hundreds of years.

All this couldn't have happened unless
Jesus was the real thing, that's your
argument. You don't see that the Church
became so powerful for completely greedy
human reasons, you think it was all because
of the message of Jesus.

I think Buddhism is much more successful as I've yet to meet a Buddhist who tried to talk to me about converting to Buddhism.

Hindu's don't convert people actively either AFAIK. Nor Sikhs.

No one should care about a god who needs a sales force. Or just human force.

If FrG says his God doesn't need a sales force he can prove it by quitting the priesthood forever. Otherwise I doubt the veracity of any such statement.

Quote: FrGamble

Jesus was not the first to claim to be the Messiah. We never hear about anyone else because they all die out literally and figuratively.

If we don't know about anyone else, how do you know Jesus wasn't the first to make the claim?

And what do you make of latter, documented claims?