The Bible God or Kali

Quote: Evenbob

The Church never voluntarily stopped doing
anything on it's own. It was was always forced
to stop by the weight of opinion against it.

This is far from the truth. It is the Church's own saints and reformers that would stop practices that were not in accord with the Gospel. The Church while mired in the culture of the day is always on the forefront of change for the better. In the Inquisition period for example, you prayed that you would receive a trial by the Church and not by the state. The Church was at the forefront of the Civil Rights movement marching with Dr. King. The Church continues to be and always has had a preferential option for the poor something seen in its charity, the largest and most generous institution on earth.

Quote:

The pedophile scandal is a good example.

It is a good example. The Church mired in the culture of the day and the psychology of the day treated pedophilia as a moral fault instead of what we know it today to be, namely a psychological illness. That combined with a sinful secrecy and horrible protection of the Church at all costs led to scandal. A scandal that opened the eyes to American society and the world to the real problem of sexual abuse of minors, that is taking place in Churches, schools, and homes. No one was talking about this issue and the poor children were shamed into silence. This is no longer the case, thank God. While the scourge still exists in the world the efforts the Church has taken to eliminate it have been exemplary and effective. No one can volunteer at any Catholic Church in the United States now without being screened criminally, and taking an education course on awareness of child sexual abuse. The amount of new cases of priests abusing children is staggering low. Why schools and workplaces around the country have not followed the Church's lead on this is beyond me, but I pray and hope that the Church which rightfully bore the brunt and burden of the sin of Child Abuse will now lead society around the world to truly make everyone aware of this horrible problem and the ways to stop it.

Quote:

That's their MO. Get away with having it their
way until they can't get away with it anymore.

Again your use of the plural here to refer to the whole Church is not true. Sinners or criminals do tend to have it their way until they can't get away with it anymore and the Church herself has put in place policies and laws so that everything from the selling of indulgences to the abuse of children is stopped.

Quote:

There is not a doubt in my mind the Church
would still be executing heretics today if they
could.

Know your history! This ended when there was a clear separation of Church and state. This was a great blessing for the Church. No longer was heresy also treason and punishable by death. Now and for the entire modern era there has been excommunication or people just leaving the Church. When the Church and State were one you couldn't just stop being a citizen and the powers that be saw heresy as not only a religious problem but a rejection of king, queen, or government and fostering rebellion.

Quote:

That's how twisted they are and
always have been about how much authority
they have.

Hopefully you see how twisted and untrue your attacks are against the Church.

Quote: FrGamble

In the Inquisition period for example, you prayed that you would receive a trial by the Church and not by the state.

No, you condemned the Church for
ever starting Inquisitions in the first
place and putting you in this horrible
position.

Quote:

It is a good example. The Church mired in the culture of the day

You always say this, 'mired in the culture',
like it gets them off the hook. Newsflash:
Every institution is mired in the culture
of it's day. The Church is supposed to be
able to rise above that because they have
god running show. Instead, the Church
was often at the forefront of the violation
of human rights for hundreds of years.
Not only weren't they better people than
the average Joe, they were far far worse.








Hopefully you see how twisted and untrue your attacks are against the Church.

Quote: Evenbob

You always say this, 'mired in the culture',
like it gets them off the hook. Newsflash:
Every institution is mired in the culture
of it's day. The Church is supposed to be
able to rise above that because they have
god running show. Instead, the Church
was often at the forefront of the violation
of human rights for hundreds of years.
Not only weren't they better people than
the average Joe, they were far far worse.

They did rise above the culture. For you to say that the Church was the worst offender of human rights is blatantly false. There were evil people in the Church who did awful things that were always condemned. If you look again at the history of our saints and our teachings you will find that what you expect in an imperfect Church run by flowed human beings but inspired by the Gospel, namely to be in the context of that period of history to be on the forefront of protecting human rights and to be on average far better in the treatment of people than the average government or institution.








Hopefully you see how twisted and untrue your attacks are against the Church.

Quote: FrGamble

There were evil people in the Church who did awful things

The point is the Church was no better than
any other group of greedy, ambitious men
who would do anything to get what they
want. For hundreds of years they were the
most powerful institution on the planet. And
they abused that power continually the
whole time they were in that position.

The point is the Church does not equal these greedy, ambitious men.

Quote: FrGamble

The point is the Church does not equal these greedy, ambitious men.

The Church is greedy ambitious men. Not
you yet, you aren't high enough in the
ranks. But if you advance, they will force
you to be just like them.

Well thank you very much. I happen to know many bishops and they are not at all as you describe. Do you think Pope Francis is a greedy and ambitious man?

Quote: FrGamble

Do you think Pope Francis is a greedy and ambitious man?

The only thing I know about him is he's
an old socialist who falls down a lot.
That's it.

Well, he is certainly not greedy or ambitious.

Quote: FrGamble

Well, he is certainly not greedy or ambitious.

He'll be 80 soon, he's just old.