Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

So you think our opposable thumb was developed specifically to masturbate?

I'm saying the most natural sex for men is self-gratification.

Quote:

It is clear scientifically and in every other way you can imagine that men and women were made for sexual intercourse with each other and that members of the same sex were not.

It's clear people evolved, just like every other plant, animal and insect in existence since some unknown ancestor developed sexual reproduction eons ago.

People were not made. But among animals, and plants and bugs and parasites even, human males are unique for having such ready, easy access to autoeroticism any time they feel like it. If men were "made" for something, it was for that.

Now, it's true women, unlike men, find it hard to provide any sexual partner with anal stimulation. But brains and hands can come together in ways that manage.

See, there are many types of sex available to men and women: oral, manual, anal, vaginal and more (even if we leave out fetishes). I fail to see why you want to reduce this spectrum of enjoyment to one and only one type and brand it somehow the only "natural" kind of sex. Do you think no women enjoy anal sex? Do you think all gay men do? Do you think there are no women who don't enjoy vaginal sex? Do you think all straight men want nothing else?

You should read more.

Quote: Evenbob

"If celibacy is pure, then sex must be dirty. Catholicism supposedly sanctifies it within marriage, but that’s just a way of buying off the laity; the priesthood remains de facto superior. The other Abrahamic religions, Judaism and Islam, mostly consider celibacy unnatural."

"Survey and statistics that show only two percent of priests have been absolutely faithful to their vows of celibacy. Adjustment problems abound as demonstrated by repeated reports of priests abandoning their callings, fathering children, being charged with child molestation."

http://religionvirus.blogspot.com/2010/04/celibacy-is-issue-catholic-elephant.html

To join in the cursing crusade going on here as late; this kind of shit that Evenbob posts is infuriating. It is hate speech, inflammatory, untrue, and not based in even a shred of evidence. Catholicism extols sex as a great gift from God, it is what makes celibacy meaningful. If Evenbob or this crazy writer he quotes thinks about it for a minute he would see that if we really did think sex was dirty than celibacy would not be significant but mandatory. The priesthood is in complete service to the laity, it is why it exists! The stats show clearly that priesthood has one of the highest job satisfactions of any career. Almost all are faithful to their callings and those doing illegal or illicit things is less than the average and at no greater number than other service professions.

Study: Priests one of the happiest in society

Quote: FrGamble

So someone choosing to remain celibate and unmarried is unnatural? .

And ridiculous. It's all in your head, your
fictional god could care less what you
do sexually. It accomplishes nothing except
to cause angst among those who do it.
What a silly thing to do to yourself, unnatural
doesn't even cover it.

Quote: FrGamble

Study: Priests one of the happiest in society

Wow, a priest wrote this. lol

'The author, who is currently serving as associate dean for seminary and ministerial programs at The Catholic University of America'

Quote: FrGamble

So someone choosing to remain celibate and unmarried is unnatural? Why do you say that? Is a man whose wife is ill or passes away and decides not to remarry doing something strange or unnatural. What about a man who devotes himself to something in such a way that he knows he would not be able to raise a family or love a spouse in the way he should? I don't see why celibacy is unnatural in anything similar to a same-sex couple who are sexually active.

Okay, we'll go with that. It's okay to forgo the route of regular heterosexual relations if you prefer not to, or prefer gay relations as long as you're not hurting anyone, and you get treated not as an exception to normal, but as normal and NATURAL.

Quote: FrGamble

To join in the cursing crusade going on here as late;...

Quote: FrGamble

If Evenbob or this crazy writer he quotes thinks about it for a minute he would see that if we really did think sex was dirty than celibacy would not be significant but mandatory.

If you didn't think sex was dirty, you wouldn't push abstinence so hard, and you wouldn't place so many restrictions on sex, either. not to mention pushing celibacy really hard on gays and lesbians.

How do you justify that?

The church can and does change traditions and rules.

Http://www.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/7

Paul talks about it being best not to get married at all. If you are married to an unbeliever, you should not leave that person, but it is ok for that person to leave you.

Http://www.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/11

Men should pray with their heads uncovered, and keep their hair short. Women should pray with their heads veiled, and keep their hair long.

Http://www.usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/14

Women should be silent in church. If they have questions, they should ask their husbands at home.

One of those talks about slavery. Again no condemnation, it was just another fact of life.

1st Corinthians chapter 7 has a lot of stuff that is inconsistent with what I think the church currently teaches.

There is stuff like this:

Quote:

If anyone thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, and if a critical moment has come and so it has to be, let him do as he wishes. He is committing no sin; let them get married.

What are we supposed to make of that?

Quote: rxwine

Okay, we'll go with that. It's okay to forgo the route of regular heterosexual relations if you prefer not to, or prefer gay relations as long as you're not hurting anyone, and you get treated not as an exception to normal, but as normal and NATURAL.

We have to firm up our language a little bit here. I hear you say it is okay to forgo sexual relations because I choose to do so in order to hopefully strengthen my relationship to Jesus Christ and be more available to serve others. What do you mean by "gay relations"? If you mean those who realize that the sexual relations between two men or two women is precisely NOT natural and therefore forgo those sexual relations than that is fine. If you refer to those who feel that sexual expression of their orientation to another man is absolutely necessary for intimacy and do not care that it is not natural because they feel it is normal to them then I would disagree. However, I would understand, as of course would the Church and the God we serve the difficult challenges they face and the only compassionate response is love, forgiveness, and empathy. As the Pope once said, "Who am I to judge?" I do not want to judge my homosexual brothers and sisters I only want to help them live chastely and inspire them to know that God will always be there for them. Nareed will say this is any example of when love equals hate. I think it is an example of when love equals truth and compassion.

Quote: Nareed

See, there are many types of sex available to men and women: oral, manual, anal, vaginal and more (even if we leave out fetishes). I fail to see why you want to reduce this spectrum of enjoyment to one and only one type and brand it somehow the only "natural" kind of sex. Do you think no women enjoy anal sex? Do you think all gay men do? Do you think there are no women who don't enjoy vaginal sex? Do you think all straight men want nothing else?

I do think our bodies and natural law can teach us about how we should use our mouth, hands, anus, etc. Just because some of these things people find enjoyable does that mean it is good for you, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually? Is enjoyment the only criteria you have in regards to the licitness and naturalness of an action sexual or otherwise?