Neo-monophysitism

Quote: FrGamble

You know better than that.

99.999%?

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You need to remember again the nature and genre of the story of Job. How do we deal with life when we are dealt a bad hand?

Well, don't turn to Jehovah. He'll just pile up insult upon injury.

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Not at all. God never causes us our pushes us to sin

Don't turn it around. Jehovah caused the flood, destroyed two cities, caused the plagues of Egypt, slaughtered the first born sons of Egypt, slaughtered the worshipers of the Golden Calf, etc.

I don't believe any of it. God is a fictional character, no more real than Zeus or Hera. But you claim to believe he's real, and at least in some of that slaughter. So tell me, how did the sins of some little boys in Egypt, some mere children well short of even puberty, cause their deaths? And don't tell me the sins of someone else are responsible. Why didn't your deity kill those others? He chose infanticide instead.

So in your parable, the father throws the kid in front of a moving car, and yells angrily "Look what you made me do!"

Quote: Nareed

Well, don't turn to Jehovah. He'll just pile up insult upon injury.

You should probably read the end of the book of Job.

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Don't turn it around. Jehovah caused the flood, destroyed two cities, caused the plagues of Egypt, slaughtered the first born sons of Egypt, slaughtered the worshipers of the Golden Calf, etc.

In every single case how many times did God warn the people of their consequences? Was 10 plagues enough, maybe He should have sent 100 to try to convince the Pharaoh to let His people go?

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So tell me, how did the sins of some little boys in Egypt, some mere children well short of even puberty, cause their deaths? And don't tell me the sins of someone else are responsible. Why didn't your deity kill those others?

Do you not think the sins of others cause pain, death, and disaster upon the innocent? Look at what Egypt was doing to the slaves in ripping away from the mothers their children and killing all their sons first born or otherwise. Do you think an all-powerful and just and loving God should just sit back and do nothing about this?

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So in your parable, the father throws the kid in front of a moving car, and yells angrily "Look what you made me do!"

Where do you get this reading of the parable I presented. I think I was clear God does what He can to warn and protect us but ultimately it is up to our free will if we want to run across the street. You can hold God's hand or break from it and run away, but I don't think the father is to blame for a child you climbs over the fence and does what he was warned a hundred times not to do.

Quote: FrGamble

Not with feelings but with changed lives and real experiences.

Atheists have just as many changes in their
lives as god believers do. God has nothing
to with it.

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Dang the gift of free will.

Your religion is a mess; your branch
of the religion is a real mess. Not
only is there no god in charge of it,
apparently nobody is. In fact, your
church knew decades ago it would
be in crisis mode about now, and did
nothing to stave it off.

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I'd love to learn more about Hinduism and discuss it. Start a thread.

No thanks. Discussing Hinduism with a Catholic
is like discussing barbecued pork with a Muslim.
Why bother.

Quote: FrGamble

You can hold God's hand or break from it and run away

Or you can quit wasting your time
trying to figure why fictional
characters act as they do. Why not
figure out the motivations of a tree,
at least a tree exists.

Quote: FrGamble

You should probably read the end of the book of Job.

How much wealth and replacement children do you think a parent needs to make up for the loss of a single child?

Not to mention that a long life in wealth with a new family,. only lets Job feel more acutely what his god took away from him. And to dwell on his actions and wonder what he did to provoke his god's wrath, as he never even got an explanation.

I will like to amend my original reply: do not turn to Jehovah, for he will only pile up insult upon injury and then rub salt in the wounds.

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In every single case how many times did God warn the people of their consequences? Was 10 plagues enough, maybe He should have sent 100 to try to convince the Pharaoh to let His people go?

The same deity who told Moses he'd harden Pharaoh's heart? It seems more like the actions of a sadist hell-bent on blaming his victims.

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Do you not think the sins of others cause pain, death, and disaster upon the innocent?

Jehovah CHOSE to kill many innocent children to punish their parents' king, after he had hardened the king's heart. Don't tell me this is a benevolent deity.

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Do you think an all-powerful and just and loving God should just sit back and do nothing about this?

I don't think he should play dominance games with the king's emotions, then blame the king for not conceding defeat, then punishing everyone but the king, then punishing the king by killing his son, and everyone else's first born sons as well.

Come on. That kind of plan would be insane if thought up by a regular human person. Though there would be mitigating circumstances. They didn't think it would go that far. Hindsight is 20/20. It seemed like a good idea at the time. But the allegedly all-powerful, all-knowing Jehovah cannot plead anything like that.

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Where do you get this reading of the parable I presented.

It was right there when I removed all the whitewash.

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I think I was clear God does what He can to warn and protect us but ultimately it is up to our free will if we want to run across the street. You can hold God's hand or break from it and run away, but I don't think the father is to blame for a child you climbs over the fence and does what he was warned a hundred times not to do.

Yes, that whitewash.

Quote: Nareed

How much wealth and replacement children do you think a parent needs to make up for the loss of a single child?

Not to mention that a long life in wealth with a new family,. only lets Job feel more acutely what his god took away from him. And to dwell on his actions and wonder what he did to provoke his god's wrath, as he never even got an explanation.

I guess you are right God could have just allowed Job to be alone and miserable after such tragedy befell him or maybe He could have helped him begin his life again and move forward. We are not talking about replacements we are talking about new life and new happiness for him. You also conveniently keep forgetting that God did not take away anything from Job.

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The same deity who told Moses he'd harden Pharaoh's heart? It seems more like the actions of a sadist hell-bent on blaming his victims.

Oh so its God's fault Pharaoh is enslaving and killing little children, I get it. You seem hell-bent on exonerating a murderous enslaving tyrant.

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Jehovah CHOSE to kill many innocent children to punish their parents' king, after he had hardened the king's heart. Don't tell me this is a benevolent deity.

Correction, God chose to punish Pharaoh for his sins and those of the people whom he lead and unquestionably carried out his sadistic commands. You keep going back to this hardened heart of Pharaoh, do you really think God is the cause of that and if he decided to let the people go God would have forced him to keep enslaving and killing them? That phrase is used to reflect the reality of the Pharaoh's hardened heart not that God kept him in that state.

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I don't think he should play dominance games with the king's emotions, then blame the king for not conceding defeat, then punishing everyone but the king, then punishing the king by killing his son, and everyone else's first born sons as well.

You are wrong about God playing dominance with the king's emotions. It is the king's pride that does not concede defeat and then has to recognize the pain he is not only causing the Israelites but his own people and his own family. You don't think the death of the king's first son was a punishment for him?

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Come on. That kind of plan would be insane if thought up by a regular human person. Though there would be mitigating circumstances. They didn't think it would go that far. Hindsight is 20/20. It seemed like a good idea at the time. But the allegedly all-powerful, all-knowing Jehovah cannot plead anything like that.

Let's see the plan is to have a common slave boy providently grow up in the king's household, come to know the king and his family, then realize his own roots and family and come to realize the injustice against his people, then Moses experiences the fact that killing does no one any good, finds himself in the desert and encounters God who has heard the plea of the enslaved people whom He loves and then sends this man who knows Pharaoh to talk some sense into him rather than kill him. When Pharaoh won't listen he warns him over, and over, and over, and over...again till it comes down to the final straw.

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It was right there when I removed all the whitewash.

You used paint remover not whitewash and then made up your own painting to fit your preconceived notions.

Quote: FrGamble

I guess you are right God could have just allowed Job to be alone and miserable after such tragedy befell him

You cannot be reasoned with. Tragedy did not "befall" Job. Tragedy was sent to him courtesy of Jehovah on a bet with Satan, with terms noted in the book. So long as you insist on whitewashing the evil deeds of your god, we have nothing more to discuss.

If Jehovah had the decency of the vilest mob hitman, he would have told Job exactly what happened, rather than berate Job for daring to ask the high and almighty for an explanation.

Have you ever seen parents who lose their children in an accident or in a mass shooting? What do they all want above all else? An explanation. Why did my child die? Why was my child killed? Next they want someone held accountable. That's why a senseless death, such as freak accidents, leave surviving parents searching for more.

Your precious god couldn't even give Job this much.

So don't tell me this sadistic monster is a benevolent deity.

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You used paint remover not whitewash and then made up your own painting to fit your preconceived notions.

Whitewash. See my point above.

It is you who are blackballing God in this story. (I didn't know what the opposite of whitewashing was so I just went with it) Anyway, YWHW did not send anything to Job but trusted that Job, a righteous man, would not turn his back on God when things got bad. God knew that good Job did not just honor God because things were going well in his life, but rather he had a true love for God that did not depend on good fortune. You are missing the forest for the trees. This fictional story is not about losing things and loved ones and then getting them back, it is about how we handle the difficult situations of life. Do we curse God and reject him leaving us no hope? No. Do we think that it is all fault because of our sins? No. Like Job we continue to trust that the love of God is still with us even though we don't understand it. I have been with parents when they have lost children in accidents. They do want to know what happened and they do want to know if something could have been done but wasn't, but most of all they want to know that they and their child are loved and going to be okay. That is what Job tells us. Only a sadistic monster would deny them this truth. And only a sadistic monster would say that there is some explanation that they or any of us could understand for what happened. You couldn't be more wrong.

Quote: FrGamble

You couldn't be more wrong.

It's amazing that we can be so wrong
so often. Have you ever considered
that your cult might be feeding you
flawed information? When a person
thinks everybody else is wrong most
of the time, it's usually them that's
the wrong one.

I bet you're going to say I'm wrong, you
just can't help it.

You are correct it has crossed my mind many times that I might be wrong, but then I do a little research and think about and find out that when it comes to the interpretation of Scripture and especially Church teaching, you in particular are almost always wrong. Has it ever crossed your mind that you might be being feed misinformation and distortion from the likes of an ex-priest and your unnamed sources that are biased against the Church?