Hey evenbob, I have a question for you.

November 26th, 2015 at 9:45:58 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: pew
'Do you really know a lot about quantum mechanics, the math involved and so forth?


I think it was Richard Feynman who said "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, that's a sure sign you do not understand quantum mechanics." I'd say that's exactly a fair assessment.

Quote:
I don't mean you but I think there is a lot of misunderstanding on the subject along with the popularization of some terms that leads to some pretty wild speculation on subjects that some commoners like myself don't fully understand.


Oh, misunderstanding is rampant.

Take the expression "quantum leap." It's supposed to mean a gigantic leap, or mayor advance. The real quantum leap phenomenon is when an electron receives or loses energy, and thus moves to an upper or lower orbit around the nucleus of an atom. Atoms are incredibly tiny, thus a quantum leap is a very tiny movement.

As quantum mechanics goes, this is very elementary. it's taught as an aside in high school chemistry, maybe also in physics (when an electron moves to a lower orbit the lost energy is emitted as a photon).

If "unbelievably small movement" gets translated into "gigantic leap," you can easily imagine what can be done with the more esoteric aspects such as the uncertainty principle, quantum entanglement, or the conservation of information.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
November 26th, 2015 at 12:42:25 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Quote: Nareed
I was a bit misleading using a poem as an example. The poem isn't just information. It's data. That is, it has a meaning which can be grasped and interpreted by a human mind. Quantum mechanics does not deal in the meaning of "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" but rather with the states of the particles involved.


This is way over my head.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
November 26th, 2015 at 12:49:36 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Wizard
This is way over my head.


Which part? Poem, data, quantum, grasp or summer? ;)

About the metaphorical meaning of "quantum leap," I forgot to mention an electron moving from one orbit to another doesn't move through the intervening orbits. Say in a large atom with several levels, like tungsten, an electron moved from the nearest orbit to the farthest one. It won't move past the electrons in the orbits in between, but rather suddenly appear at the outermost one. This is compared to a change in state rather than position (it is, if you consider the energies involved).

So a good metaphorical meaning would be something akin to an epiphany or sudden realization. But the progress from the Wright Flier to the A-380 isn't a "quantum leap" at all.

If you're interested in a description, though perhaps not much of an explanation, of quantum mechanics, and relativity to boot, I suggest looking up the books about "Mr. Tompkins" written by physicist George Gamow.

Be warned, though, that compared to quantum mechanics, relativity is child's play (except the part about non-simultaneity of events; I've yet to grasp that one).
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
November 26th, 2015 at 12:53:03 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: Wizard
This is way over my head.
I thought you would be celebrating yesterday? One hundred years since Einstein presented his Relativity theory to the Prussian Academy? http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/11/economist-explains-17
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
November 26th, 2015 at 1:40:46 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Quote: Nareed
Which part? Poem, data, quantum, grasp or summer? ;)

About the metaphorical meaning of "quantum leap," I forgot to mention an electron moving from one orbit to another doesn't move through the intervening orbits. Say in a large atom with several levels, like tungsten, an electron moved from the nearest orbit to the farthest one. It won't move past the electrons in the orbits in between, but rather suddenly appear at the outermost one. This is compared to a change in state rather than position (it is, if you consider the energies involved).

So a good metaphorical meaning would be something akin to an epiphany or sudden realization. But the progress from the Wright Flier to the A-380 isn't a "quantum leap" at all.

If you're interested in a description, though perhaps not much of an explanation, of quantum mechanics, and relativity to boot, I suggest looking up the books about "Mr. Tompkins" written by physicist George Gamow.

Be warned, though, that compared to quantum mechanics, relativity is child's play (except the part about non-simultaneity of events; I've yet to grasp that one).


I feel like Penny after Sheldon's physics lesson.

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
November 26th, 2015 at 1:53:29 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Wizard
I feel like Penny after Sheldon's physics lesson.


I'm sure I'd feel the same after a real lecture from Sheldon.

Take this simple advice, it helps some people: Relativity isn't hard to understand, it's hard to believe.

For help regarding quantum mechanics, there isn't any. Just jokes:


A photon walks into two bars.


Schrodinger's cat walks/doesn't walk into a bar.


A police officer stops an electron and asks "Do you know how fast you were going?"
"No," answers the electron," but I can tell you where I've been."
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
November 26th, 2015 at 6:11:57 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: pew
'Do you really know a lot about quantum mechanics, the math involved and so forth?


I should add this: my knowledge of science is almost entirely qualitative. That is, I don't know math. Oh, some simple equations are easy to understand, and I can apply a bit of arithmetic now and then when needed. But as to the math of 99.999999999999999% of all science, I'm clueless. Especially when it comes to quantum mechanics.

You'll often hear it said descriptions of quantum mechanics are rough translations of the math involved. I do grasp this to a certain point.

Heisenberg's work on the uncertainty principle makes use of a matrix. This means if you determine one value of a particle, you do so only by not being able to determine another value, because that's how a matrix works. Thus you can know a particle's position, but only by not knowing its speed. or you can know its speed, but only by not knowing its position.

And thus the joke about the electron who knows where it has been but not how fast it was going.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
November 26th, 2015 at 8:51:49 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: Nareed
I should add this: my knowledge of science is almost entirely qualitative. That is, I don't know math. Oh, some simple equations are easy to understand, and I can apply a bit of arithmetic now and then when needed. But as to the math of 99.999999999999999% of all science, I'm clueless. Especially when it comes to quantum mechanics.

You'll often hear it said descriptions of quantum mechanics are rough translations of the math involved. I do grasp this to a certain point.

Heisenberg's work on the uncertainty principle makes use of a matrix. This means if you determine one value of a particle, you do so only by not being able to determine another value, because that's how a matrix works. Thus you can know a particle's position, but only by not knowing its speed. or you can know its speed, but only by not knowing its position.

And thus the joke about the electron who knows where it has been but not how fast it was going.


So,

"General relativity gives us a picture of the very big (space-time and gravity), while quantum theory gives us our picture of the very small (atoms and their constituents)."

So, what then when the Universe was smaller than a atom? It was the quantum theory universe, not the relativity universe?
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
November 27th, 2015 at 3:01:50 PM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
The bottom line is, could quantum effects account for the survival of the human psyche, soul, spirit or whatever you want to call it after death? How about the miraculous Like healing, transmutation of matter, clairvoyance or traveling some distance in an instant? It doesn't seem likely to me. On another note, I think it's weird that the distance between a nucleus and an electron is relatively great and between atoms also. I've read that the reality we deal with daily is mostly empty space. If that's the case why can't we walk through walls or walk away from a head on collision at 60 mph.
November 27th, 2015 at 3:13:41 PM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Quote: pew
The bottom line is, could quantum effects account for the survival of the human psyche, soul, spirit or whatever you want to call it after death? How about the miraculous Like healing, transmutation of matter, clairvoyance or traveling some distance in an instant? It doesn't seem likely to me. On another note, I think it's weird that the distance between a nucleus and an electron is relatively great and between atoms also. I've read that the reality we deal with daily is mostly empty space. If that's the case why can't we walk through walls or walk away from a head on collision at 60 mph.


Because the force keeping atoms apart is really, really strong. At that level, 'empty space' is not the same as what we think of empty space in a room (which tends to be filled with stuff we call air).

I have no idea of the mechanics of a soulful reincarnation, and it does sound pretty much impossible. I'd just merely state that knowing HOW something works is not a necessary condition for knowing it does work. It helps a lot, mind, and I'm not saying we know that we have anything like good evidence of reincarnation (a quick survey of skeptical response to the books shows a lot of doubt over the 3,000 examples Bob was banging on about).
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life