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Quote: Nareed

But in the meantime there's the money already spent on the 787, the higher maintenance costs of the current 757 ...

Aeromexico has 8 Dreamliners (B787-8) already + the president's plane. On 27. Sep 2015 they withdrew from use their last B767. They are negotiating for another 6-8 of the larger Dreamliner (B787-9). The four 12 year old B777s to that fly to Asia are under lease, so I think that Aeromexico will end up an all Dreamliner widebody fleet. It would make sense to have the same model for the President's plane as maintenance contracts will be much easier.

Quote: Nareed

... the new money to be spent on the 737 (which will be more than predicted)

Aeromexico has 21 B737 (124 seats) and 31 B738 (130 seats). They are initially going to replace all the B737s with B738s.

Ultimately they have as many as 100 new Boeing 737 MAX 8/9 on order.

With the other three airlines also having large orders of Airbus narrowbodies, I hope they get that new airport built pretty soon.

Quote: Pacomartin

Aeromexico has 8 Dreamliners (B787-8) already + the president's plane. On 27. Sep 2015 they withdrew from use their last B767. They are negotiating for another 6-8 of the larger Dreamliner (B787-9). The four 12 year old B777s to that fly to Asia are under lease, so I think that Aeromexico will end up an all Dreamliner widebody fleet. It would make sense to have the same model for the President's plane as maintenance contracts will be much easier.

I don't think that's a factor. The Mexican Air Force owns and operates the president's plane(s). As far as I know, neither Mexicana nor Aeromexico owned 757s, though they did have several 767s. Conceivably the government could award AM a maintenance contract, but I doubt it.

I think this is the schedule for the end of Aeromexico's Boeing 777s (10 year leases). After that the only widebodies in Mexico will be Dreamliners.
22. Mar 2016
28. Apr 2016
28. Dec 2016 former Varig plane
05. Sep 2017 former Varig plane

Three years ago 75% of Aeromexico's fleet was leased. Their goal is to reduce the leased fleet to 33%.

Quote: Nareed

I don't think that's a factor. The Mexican Air Force owns and operates the president's plane(s).

I guess I just assumed there would be cooperation in maintenance.

The President’s Dreamliner to arrive in Mexico December 18, ready for service.
Payments began in 2012. By 2017 the aircraft’s total cost will have reached $6.769 billion, with yearly payments running at just over $500 million during most of that time. It will have capacity to carry 250 passengers, and feature a private suite for the president.

I am not sure who they are leasing the President's plane from. I wonder if it is the same company that owns the Aeromexico Dreamliners?

Quote: Pacomartin

I guess I just assumed there would be cooperation in maintenance.

A few years ago, a business jet carrying the Secretary of the Interior and some other officials crashed in Mexico City, killing all onboard. The jet was privately owned and contracted to the government. the accident investigation revealed the pilots were not certified for the type. This was a major scandal. I'm willing to bet no one but air force personnel ever gets near the president's jet.

Quote:

Payments began in 2012. By 2017 the aircraft’s total cost will have reached $6.769 billion, with yearly payments running at just over $500 million during most of that time.

I wonder why it costs that much. I mean, you could equip a whole airline for that money. Fro that much money, it had better be plated in gold or something.

Quote: Nareed

I wonder why it costs that much. I mean, you could equip a whole airline for that money. For that much money, it had better be plated in gold or something.

The Russians used to call their deepest diving submarines "goldbugs" because someone calculated that they cost more than their weight in gold. Gold bug is also a term frequently employed in the financial sector and among economists in reference to persons who are extremely bullish on the commodity gold as an investment and or a standard for measuring wealth.

A Gulfstream G650ER—the extended-range version of Gulfstream’s popular top-of-the-line G650 business jet—can carry an extra 4,000 pounds of fuel and was certified in October 2014.. In March of this year the jet took off from White Plains with three passengers and four crew, traveling east to take advantage of prevailing westerly winds. It flew across the Atlantic and over Europe and Asia, then, after 13 hours and 20 minutes aloft, landed in Beijing. Once refueled, the jet continued on to cross the Pacific and North America, landing in Savannah 12 hours later. Both legs were completed with fuel remaining in excess of standard reserves.

While the price tag is close to $70 million, it seems like it would be cheaper to buy a small fleet of them with a good communications systems, than a custom presidential widebody. It's also a classic security measure. The POTUS never flies in a helicopter without being escorted by several other helicopters equipped identically so they can make a last minute change. In a similar manner the ship in the center of a naval aircraft carrier group is always an underway replenishment vehicle and never a high value target.

The most parsiminous major power in the world is the United Kingdom which has a population about half of Mexico. Royal and Ministerial aircraft are restricted to helicopters since most of the population of the country is within a two hour helicopter ride of London. The royals and ministers must lease VIP aircraft appropriate to their mission. The military still has a handful of 30 year old VIP aircraft from the days when UK used to manufacture jets.

Ireland takes an only slightly more relaxed view. Thay have a $12 million Learjet which can take a 2 man crew and 9 passengers for a range of 3,167 km allowing them to take short trips within the EU without leasing a plane.

There have been 15 orders of a VIP version of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, no doubt boosted by the publicity over Mexican's presidential jet. It is believed most of them are going to the Middle East (there is shocking news). I wonder how the others compare in price and features?

Quote: Pacomartin

While the price tag is close to $70 million, it seems like it would be cheaper to buy a small fleet of them with a good communications systems, than a custom presidential widebody.

Not when politics run on appearances and personal gestures. You don't look "presidential" stepping off a business jet. You can't take along a gaggle of Congress Critters with you on a state visit without a commercial jet.

And you know how men are about the size of their phallic symbols ;)

Quote: Nareed

Not when politics run on appearances and personal gestures. You don't look "presidential" stepping off a business jet. You can't take along a gaggle of Congress Critters with you on a state visit without a commercial jet.

I understand about unlimited wants.

Canada has a widebody for VIPs like the prime minister, but it is based on the A310 and is 18 years old with a range of: 9,600 km. The Boeing VC-25 has an unrefueled range of at least 9,700 km. Compare that to the 757-200 range of 7,222 km-7,600 km.



Canada has considerable geographic advantage over Mexico:

8510 km Vancouver Intl Arpt, Vancouver, BC (YVR) to Beijing Capital Arpt, Beijing, CN (PEK)
10300 km Gen Abelardo Rodriguez, Tijuana, MX (TIJ) to Beijing Capital Arpt, Beijing, CN (PEK)

8930 km Ottawa Intl Arpt, Ottawa, ON (YOW) to Ben Gurion Intl Arpt, Tel Aviv, IL (TLV)
9060 km Juarez Intl, Mexico City, MX (MEX) to Barajas Arpt, Madrid, ES (MAD)

7390 km Juarez Intl, Mexico City, MX (MEX) to Ministro Pistarini, Buenos Aires, AR (EZE)

Quote: Pacomartin

I understand about unlimited wants.

The politicians don't. That's why they have so many.

Still, you have to admit that is a pretty cool interior design for a private Dreamliner (the larger model)










The private A380 order was cancelled

Quote: Pacomartin

Still, you have to admit that is a pretty cool interior design for a private Dreamliner (the larger model)

It's too bad you can't sleep for several days on a plane parked in a hangar, the way you can in a yacht tied to a marina.