Hey FrGamble!

October 5th, 2015 at 5:33:46 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
Quote: FrGamble
The evidence for God is the fact of existence everywhere you look!


I don't presume any intelligent being is needed. In fact the Universe appears to meet the requirements needed for non-intelligent creation.

There are at least two ways where you could get a Royal Flush. The Intelligent Creator way is to just look at a deck and pull out the needed cards. It's very fast but not the only way.

Surely you don't deny that given enough time, you could more than likely randomly pick a Royal Flush given enough trials through random blind selection?

What does the Universe represent, but a lot of time and lots of stuff? On a scale of even 1 billion years, your whole lifetime is nearly infinitesimal in comparison.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 5th, 2015 at 10:34:26 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: rxwine

Surely you don't deny that given enough time, you could more than likely randomly pick a Royal Flush given enough trials through random blind selection?


I do not deny that. Surely though you don't deny that the amazingly sensitive laws of the universe, structure of atoms, and the complexity of life is on a level far and away more difficult to achieve through random blind selection than pulling a royal flush? The comparisons you might have heard before are more akin to believing that you could pour the separate pieces of the space shuttle into a tornado and having a working space shuttle emerge or having a monkey randomly type for a couple of days and randomly producing the complete works of Shakespeare. Are these things really reasonably possible through random blind selection?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 5th, 2015 at 10:35:43 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
You must come to the realization that organized
religion is not a wonderful accomplishment. It's
done and continues to do far more harm than
good.


There is no way you can rationally come to this conclusion.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 5th, 2015 at 10:55:47 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
There is no way you can rationally come to this conclusion.


This is from Psychology Today:

"It must be admitted..that religion has historically – and today – served as an ultra-conservative and repressive influence leading to social and cultural divisions, and has been the excuse for barbaric warfare, torture and executions. Dogmatic teaching on ways of thinking and behaving have hindered educational development, led to rigid and punitive parental styles, justified unfair and pernicious social stratification, led to unnatural and repressive attitudes towards the body and sexual relations, and hindered creative expression."

If you look at all the bad that comes from religion,
and all the good, you realize that the good could
have been done with no religious involvement at
all. But the bad, while certainly not exclusive to
organized religions, have certainly been and
continue to be their cornerstones. Especially
the repression of women, sexual lifestyles,
and creative expression. Even now the Church
maintains homosexuality is a choice and
has a place it sends priests to be 'cured'. How
laughably barbaric in the modern age.

As he says at the end, if religion is bad or
good is something we have to decide. And
fewer and fewer are going to church and
more and more are picking a life without
a smothering and hateful god in it, a secular
life.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spiritual-wisdom-secular-times/201409/is-religion-bad-thing
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 5th, 2015 at 11:02:08 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
more and more are picking a life without
a smothering and hateful god in it, a secular
life.


I hope you can see why I cannot take you seriously when you have such distorted and prejudiced views.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 5th, 2015 at 11:33:31 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
Quote: FrGamble
I do not deny that. Surely though you don't deny that the amazingly sensitive laws of the universe, structure of atoms, and the complexity of life is on a level far and away more difficult to achieve through random blind selection than pulling a royal flush? The comparisons you might have heard before are more akin to believing that you could pour the separate pieces of the space shuttle into a tornado and having a working space shuttle emerge or having a monkey randomly type for a couple of days and randomly producing the complete works of Shakespeare. Are these things really reasonably possible through random blind selection?


No. But it wasn't necessary to have a modern Space Shuttle arise from random events.

Once the Universe arrived at the point where there were habitable planets, the first forms of life were simple. We know this happened on at least one planet.

The result after millions of years is many species -- and you might say some species got varying degrees of intelligence. Apes do have a sense of self, but only the abilities of a 3 year old human.

Humans have the ability for purposeful invention. We essentially got the ability to bypass randomness.

Intelligence is how we accelerated the process well beyond randomness to create a space shuttle. A space shuttle (imo) requires intelligence to develop in the current estimated time of the universe. But it didn't need god level intelligence, just us.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 6th, 2015 at 12:26:12 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
I hope you can see why I cannot take you seriously when you have such distorted and prejudiced views.


No no no, you can't take it seriously because
your church forbids it. You are on a very short
leash as to what you can accept or reject. You have
a master, and it's not an imaginary god. It's
the very real and repressive Catholic Church.

Fortunately the rest of us are no longer within
reach of the Church's now short arm. They can
no longer imprison or execute us for speaking
our minds. That you would even work for such
a company with that kind of horrific history is
mind blowing to me. You seem better than that.

This is the 'modern' Church. 'Curing' homosexuals.
Is this a joke, is the Church really this ignorant of
reality? It would seem they are..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vatican-uses-venturini-monastery-to-cure-gay-priests-former-clergy-claim-a6680681.html
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 6th, 2015 at 12:44:19 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: rxwine
A space shuttle (imo) requires intelligence to develop in the current estimated time of the universe. But it didn't need god level intelligence, just us.
You nail it again Rx.

Most earthlings are thinking in earth years, but it is actually space time. Whether the discussions revolve around how many revolutions the third rock from the sun has went around the big bright star is moot.

So it has occurred to me that when people discuss black holes swallowing up everything that is known to exist, planets, stars, even the national debt, I wondered what it would be like to be way deep in the funnel of the whirlpool that is the venturi of the black hole and turn around and look out? Would it be nothing but light coming at you?

Things only exist it their relationship to their opposites, "Ken Wilbur"

When quantum is held to be true, then time doesn't pass. It just is. Man invented the measurement of time, in order to create a mental defense against his eventual demise.

Time isn't passing, it only appears to because we want it to, as evidence that we were correct. All time does is record revolutions on this rock.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
October 6th, 2015 at 5:27:16 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
I do not deny that. Surely though you don't deny that the amazingly sensitive laws of the universe, structure of atoms, and the complexity of life is on a level far and away more difficult to achieve through random blind selection than pulling a royal flush? The comparisons you might have heard before are more akin to believing that you could pour the separate pieces of the space shuttle into a tornado and having a working space shuttle emerge or having a monkey randomly type for a couple of days and randomly producing the complete works of Shakespeare. Are these things really reasonably possible through random blind selection?


Nice straw man argument. Excellent example.

Have you seen the evolution of the eye, from simple photosensitive cells to the complex eye we have now?

Evolution is just small, random variations through reproduction. Natural selection is the process through which small advantages are propogated, and then evolution again as small random variations produce slightly different forms. We all know that the Catholic Church supports evolution.

As for the amazing sensitive laws of the universe, life fit itself into the laws of the universe, not the other way around. That which was best fit to survive, did. Look into the deep sea. Life has evolved to survive in the conditions there where we could not live, and the things that live there can't survive even in the upper ocean.

It is really too bad that an institution that supported science doesn't like the answers that have been found.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
October 6th, 2015 at 6:25:43 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
edited
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.