the death of coal?

September 24th, 2020 at 5:53:10 PM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4493
Quote: rxwine
Good point. Look how many decades and human work hours have been dedicated to development of more efficient burning of fossil fuels compared to green energy.

(Kenarman inserts some sort of rebuttal here)


I will take the bait. The real reason I support carbon fuels because the increased winds that some claim it produces will be good for the windmills. Human ingenuity at work. We can get independent proof for the article from our current traveler when he gets to California and he confirms the natural gas generators that are built at the wind power sites to back the them up when the wind isn't blowing.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
September 24th, 2020 at 7:48:20 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
https://stopthesethings.com/2014/08/16/how-much-co2-gets-emitted-to-build-a-wind-turbine/

What a great resource for those that question alternative energy generation methods.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
September 24th, 2020 at 9:00:47 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11791
Quote: petroglyph
https://stopthesethings.com/2014/08/16/how-much-co2-gets-emitted-to-build-a-wind-turbine/

What a great resource for those that question alternative energy generation methods.

Do the economics work? If so, its gonna grow. Its pretty big here in OK
As to co2
Price of progress
But
As tech improves, there will be cheaper more unique methods taking advantage of the wind.
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
September 24th, 2020 at 9:12:43 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18756
That which is impossible.


Quote:
n his 1842 book The Positive Philosophy, the French philosopher Auguste Comte wrote of the stars: “We can never learn their internal constitution, nor, in regard to some of them, how heat is absorbed by their atmosphere.”


Throughout the Renaissance and the early development of modern science, astronomers refused to accept the existence of meteorites. The idea that stones could fall from space was regarded as superstitious and possibly heretical – surely God would not have created such an untidy universe?

The number of scientists and engineers who confidently stated that heavier-than-air flight was impossible in the run-up to the Wright brothers’ flight is too large to count.


From atmospheric flight, to space flight. The idea that we might one day send any object into space, let alone put men into orbit, was long regarded as preposterous.

The scepticism was well-founded, since the correct technologies were simply not available. To travel in space, a craft must reach escape velocity – for vehicles leaving Earth, this is 11.2 kilometres per second. To put this figure into perspective, the sound barrier is a mere 1,238 kilometres per hour, yet it was only broken in 1947.

On 29 December 1934, Albert Einstein was quoted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette as saying, “There is not the slightest indication that [nuclear energy] will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.” This followed the discovery that year by Enrico Fermi that if you bombard uranium with neutrons, the uranium atoms split up into lighter elements, releasing energy.

People who think of black holes as a futuristic or modern idea may be surprised to learn that the basic concept was first mooted in 1783, in a letter to the Royal Society penned by the geologist John Michell. He argued that if a star were massive enough, “a body falling from an infinite height towards it would have acquired at its surface greater velocity than that of light… all light emitted from such a body would be made to return towards it by its own proper gravity.”

However, throughout the 19th century the idea was rejected as outright ridiculous. This was because physicists thought of light as a wave in the ether – it was assumed to have no mass, and therefore to be immune to gravity.

Creating force fields
This classic of science fiction went from wild speculation to verifiable fact in 1995 with the invention of the “plasma window“.




Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13556-10-impossibilities-conquered-by-science/#ixzz6Z1WZtA4i
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
September 24th, 2020 at 9:19:28 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
How much co2 gets emitted to build a fossil fuel power plant, or an oil refinery?

That's more of a rhetorical question.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
September 25th, 2020 at 6:57:06 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: terapined
I decided not to read the article because I dont believe it will be fair and balanced.
Got a more independent source?


Important statistic.
https://www.canstarblue.com.au/electricity/electricity-costs-kwh/

South Australians (fifth largest state by population with a total of 1.76 million people), pay an average of 36.223 AUD cents per kWh (25.47 USD cents per KWh)
Victoria (the state in the previous article) with a population of 6.689 million and the city of Melbourne has an average electricity rate of 24.205 AUD cents per kWh (17.02 USD cents per kWh) . New South Wales with 1/3 of the population of the country is similar rate as Victoria.

You see comparable articles about US states that get most of their electricity from coal, but whose future power plant fuel being dictated by politicians who despise coal.

Hawaii 29.03
------------------------------------------- South Australia 25.47 USD cents per kWh
Alaska 23.85
Connecticut 21.73
Massachusetts 21.01
California 19.79
Vermont 19.67
Rhode Island 19.28
New York 19.11
New Hampshire 19.00
------------------------------------------- New South Wales, Australia 18.56 USD cents per kWh
------------------------------------------- Victoria, Australia 17.02 USD cents per kWh
Maine 16.91
....
U.S. average of 13.28 cents per kilowatt hour.
....
Louisiana 9.50
October 26th, 2020 at 12:29:43 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Largest coal fired plants in the USA (by Megawatts) from ~2,400MW or higher
  1. 3,653 W. A. Parish Texas
  2. 3,520 Scherer Georgia
  3. 3,499 Bowen Georgia
  4. 3,400 Monroe Michigan
  5. 3,345 Gibson Indiana
  6. 2,933 John E. Amos West Virginia
  7. 2,671 James M. Barry Alabama
  8. 2,640 James H. Miller Jr. Alabama
  9. 2,600 General James M. Gavin Ohio
  10. 2,600 Rockport Indiana
  11. 2,470 Cumberland Tennessee
  12. 2,422 Roxboro North Carolina
  13. 2,413 Chalk Point Maryland
  14. 2,390 Cross South Carolina


In comparison, one of the biggest oil producing countries in the world, the UAE, is spending $3.4 to build a brand new 2,400 MW plant to burn imported coal.

Hassyan Clean Coal Project, Dubai
The Hassyan clean coal power station (initially 2,400MW )is an ultra-supercritical (USC) power plant being developed in Saih Shuaib, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. The plant could easily be expanded at a later date.

The project supports the Dubai Clean Energy Strategy 2050, which aims to produce 25% of energy from solar power, 7% from nuclear power, 7% from clean coal, and the remaining 61% from gas by 2030.

Just goes to show you that every country wants a little diversity in their energy sources to cover all kinds of political or natural scenarios.

Image of plant location shows the efforts needed to easily import coal.
January 21st, 2021 at 10:20:01 AM permalink
reno
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 58
Posts: 1384
Back during the 2016 campaign, Mr Trump promised to “put the miners back to work” and “get those mines open.”

Despite his best efforts, he wasn't able to save the coal industry.

July 2nd, 2021 at 8:56:34 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18756
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
July 9th, 2021 at 9:58:23 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: reno
Back during the 2016 campaign, Mr Trump promised to “put the miners back to work” and “get those mines open.”
Despite his best efforts, he wasn't able to save the coal industry.


Renewables are not the major beneficiary of the death of coal, it looks like natural gas is mostly taking over that position, even in California.

Natural gas is also a fossil fuel. It may produce 40% of the carbon dioxide as coal, but it is now 40% more in use than coal. And where do we get natural gas? Of course, we get it from hydraulic fracking.



Roughly 25% of the population of the United States gets their electricity from the Western Interconnection. The 7 high voltage direct current ties between the western and eastern interconnections were mostly built mostly before the year 2000 and can only pass 0.1% of the electricity generated by the Eastern and Western. Only three power plants in the Western Interconnection are nuclear.

Energy strategists feel that stronger ties should be built. That way the west can bail out the east if they have problems with snowstorms (for instance) or the east can bail out the west if they have a particularly hot spell.

Some people are worried that California is going to get into a massive electricity shortfall as they already consume far more electricity than they make and rely on the hydraulic generation from the Pacific Northwest, plants in Mexico, and the nuclear power plant in Arizona. If they add over 10 million EVs, their demand will only increase.demand.