God and Gay Marriage

July 2nd, 2015 at 6:34:50 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Any references to segregation in regards to the issue of same sex "marriage" is racist. Racism claims that there is a fundamental difference between white and black people - THERE IS NOT. Nor is there a fundamental difference between homosexuals or heterosexuals. There is a fundamental difference between men and women. This point is essential to understand and I think I have only heard Nareed recognize this truth. It is not prejudice or racism to treat different things differently or especially to name them by different words. If I go to the coffee shop and ask for a bagel and they give me a donut it is not the same. If I complain and they say, look man they are basically the same I am still going to want my bagel. By saying my argument is a Catholic version of segregation is to say that gender either means nothing or that the color of your skin means a lot more than it does. So stop the craziness. It is so simple that I don't understand why people don't get it.

Wait, I do and I can understand it. Homosexuals want to use the same word "marriage" because they want to be accepted for who they are exactly like any heterosexual couple. I sympathize with that, I really do. However, what about gay pride and recognizing that while equal to everyone else your loving and committed relationship is different. Now I am accused of not explaining why this relationship is different. It is different because men and women are different. I think this is clear without going into how these different couples may or may not express their love sexually, if they can reproduce or not, the complementarity of the sexes, etc., etc.

Finally, Nareed I agree with you that our rights are inherent to us as human beings. However, not to get off track here but I'm surprised your argument for them amounts to they are there and that is it. What grounds those rights of every human person. You are right to think they are NOT given to us by government or some worldly authority. History shows us how messed up that idea is. However, they can't just arrive by magic. You need something to anchor those rights so that they cannot be manipulated or doubted. The true and only ground of our human rights is God. Without God you cannot just claim we have this awesome and sacrosanct rights without being challenged as to why and how they come about. Just another example of the chaos and confusion that comes when we remove God from our lives and society.
It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures. (
July 2nd, 2015 at 6:56:14 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18807
Quote: FrGamble
If I go to the coffee shop and ask for a bagel and they give me a donut it is not the same. If I complain and they say, look man they are basically the same I am still going to want my bagel.


Well gays are the people who wanted a donut, but people want them to eat the bagel because 90% of others want bagels. (for purposes of example only)

But you don't always need the exact right tool to accomplish something. It's just more convenient.

Organs are tools. The brain is the source.

I think it's needlessly moralistic to judge sexual preference. It's like judging people who are hungry or sleepy.

There's only more to it if you can find real harm. For instance the compulsion to kill. You have to stop someone like that, even if they are compelled, but as far as judging gays, I don't see where it comes into play.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
July 2nd, 2015 at 7:09:01 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18807
Let God curse the left handers as well for not being born in the majority. It's as simple as that.

Quote:
I am a recent business graduate and help a girl with her O-Level Studies in my neighbourhood during my time off from work. Shes an intelligent student, but like many teenagers of her age, she has some self-confidence issues which haunt her especially during exams and question and answer sessions. I was surprised (somewhat horrified) to find out that she was originally a left-hander but as a child she was forced to switch to her right hand due to obscure social and relegious beliefs of her parents. Ive read about the adverse effects of such practices but could it be that her shyness in class and panic in exams could be a result of being forced to switch hands?

When I was in third grade (approximately 1968) my teacher did not understand how left- handed people write and kept trying to tape my writing paper down with a right-handed slant (we were learning cursive if that doesnt date me â¦). And every time she would walk away or turn her back I would rip the paper and slant it the other way (to me the correct way) and continue writing. The way she had it taped, I would have had to write upside-down, no wonder so many left-handers look like theyre writing upside-down they are. My brother is also left-handed. When he was learning to write he was attending a parochial (church based) grade school (probably early 1960â²s) and they still believed at the time if you were left-handed there was something sinisterâ about being left-handed and it must be changed. So they forced him to switch to his right hand for his own goodâ. His hand writing is still some of the worse I have ever seen. Most of the time he prefers to print, hes just not comfortable with cursive to this day. Thank the nuns for that.

I can remember my third grade teacher, literally tying my left hand to the desk, so I would be forced to use my right hand, I also received the strap numerous times for just being left handed. Its gotta be better in the school system these days. Keep up the good work!
I was constantly corrected using my cutlery. One teaching assistant would come and snatch the cutlery out of my hands and tell me to âhold them the right way.

When I was in the earliest grades, I was actually *punished* for trying to write with my left hand. I was forced to stand in the corner of the classroom, facing the wall, as if I had been naughty.

The first teacher I had the misfortune to have at school told me I was âcack-handed. She placed the pencil in my right hand and said I wasnt to use my left hand again. In fact, if she found me using my left hand, she called me a disobedient little wretch and smacked my hands (imagine that happening today!!). She then said my written letters (block capitals) were appalling and untidy and I was called stupid. Thank heavens my mother found out.. She confronted this teacher and told her I was left handed and to try to make write with my right hand was totally un-natural. The teacher told her that if she didnt want me to be normal then that was up to her. I wish I had heard my mothers response to that.

I was lucky that I never had a teacher who tried to change me. The only person who did that was my father who insisted I learn to write right handed. I did that, then went back to writing left handed and he gave up. I ignored his prediction that Id only ever be able to get a job in a pickle factory because I was left handed.

As a child my mum had to go in the primary school I was at to tell the dinner lady off. I was eating my pudding and was told to stop being silly and eat properlyâ this being right handed!

Heather, who is 8, came home and told us she got in trouble for eating with the wrong handâ. When she told the teacher she couldnt eat with the other hand, she was told she was being defiant and she got lunch detention. I called the school and spoke with the principal and was advised that Heather was intentionally hitting elbows with the (right handed) boy next to her. I realized the biggest issue is that they make the kids stand in ABC order and file into the seats (12 on a side) and sit down. When I go into a restaurant or crowded dinner table, I always look for the spot on the far left. The teacher and I came up with a solution. Heather is now allowed to either be the first or last one on the row so that she doesnt hit anyone with her elbow. Ohâ¦and the right-handed boy did NOT get lunch detention.

Forcing someone to write with their unnatural hand is barbaric! Some people who have been forced to write right-handed have developed a stutter later in life. King George VI was one.

I am leftie. At first, when in primary school, my teacher attempted to change my by force and my mum didnt oppose it. I started well but at the point of forcing me to use right, my brain literally switched. I would write letters in mirrored forms or just twist them. At the end of my first year, my teacher reported I was a dull child but when my report was carefully checked, they realised it was because I was forced to use right. They allowed me use my blessed left hand to write but then I lost a year as I was forced to repeat a class.

From Uganda I felt this was really a valuable thought to us Left handed ones especially our Children that suffer persecution, rejection and abuse during their early days of Education because of being Left handed. I was traumatized and beaten by school teachers when I was young because I had totally failed to adjust and was writing with my Left hand.



- See more at: http://www.anythinglefthanded.co.uk/being-lh/children/teaching/forced-change.html#sthash.mXa4TlTk.dpuf
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
July 2nd, 2015 at 7:10:57 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25013
Quote: FrGamble

Wait, I do and I can understand it. Homosexuals want to use the same word "marriage" because they want to be accepted for who they are exactly like any heterosexual couple.


No NO NO! You do not get it.
They want to be treated as any other HUMAN
couple. You're the one that wants it broken
down into categories for your own political
ends.

Quote:
or may not express their love sexually, if they can reproduce or not,


So people over 50 can't marry in your church?
The woman can no longer have kids.

Quote:
Just another example of the chaos and confusion that comes when we remove God from our lives and society.


Seriously? God is the one screwing up everything.
Belief in your imaginary daddy is at the base of all
the worlds problems.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
July 2nd, 2015 at 7:16:38 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25013
Quote: rxwine
but as far as judging gays, I don't see where it comes into play.


It doesn't to a logical person. It only
occurs to the religious zealots among
us in the world. But logic will win
eventually, because it exists and god
does not. Ignorance always loses in the
end.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
July 2nd, 2015 at 7:21:35 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
They want to be treated as any other HUMAN
couple.


What am I saying that is not treating anyone as any other HUMAN?!? I call you Bob but I try to treat you like Mary, even though I admit it is hard at times.


Quote:
So people over 50 can't marry in your church?
The woman can no longer have kids.


Sure they can, you don't have to be over 50 to not be able to have kids. You do have to be a combo of man and woman to have the natural opportunity to.


Quote:
Seriously? God is the one screwing up everything.
Belief in your imaginary daddy is at the base of all
the worlds problems.


The foundation of all the world's problems is our attempt to play God.
It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures. (
July 2nd, 2015 at 7:25:27 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25013
Quote: FrGamble

Sure they can, you don't have to be over 50 to not be able to have kids.


Yet you admit that an impotent man
cannot marry in the Church. What the
heck is the difference, neither he nor
a woman over 50 can have kids. Yet
you discriminate against the man.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
July 2nd, 2015 at 7:28:55 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25013
Quote: FrGamble
What am I saying that is not treating anyone as any other HUMAN?!? .


Of course the Church is not treating marriage
as between two humans. Are you joking?
They break humans down into sub categories,
just like racists do. These categories can get
married, this other combination cannot.

What do you call that but discrimination.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
July 2nd, 2015 at 7:33:34 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Welcome to reality my friend. You are a male and you have a unique name. You are different than me but equal. When do we not break things into sub-categories? Everything around you is named differently because it is different and it helps us understand the world around us. Some of those things are substantially different and such as cockroaches and human beings and are treated as such. Other things are different like men and women and are treated equally with respect and dignity. You are grasping at straws and just calling names, which is trying to break me down into a sub category. You are discriminating against me instead of engaging in solid debate, stop it.
It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures. (
July 2nd, 2015 at 8:09:43 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25013
Quote: FrGamble
When do we not break things into sub-categories?.


When we talk about equal rights, that's
when. Equal rights for all humans. Not
for some but not others. That's how
god does things in religion, he does have
his favorites. In the world, it's called
discrimination.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.