I don't get it

Quote: Nareed

You're making three big mistakes about this:

Oh, there is a fourth mistake:

4) You seem to have confused an inability to comprehend religion as an attack on religion. Otherwise I can't explain why you came back from your trip with guns blazing.

Seriously, I don't get it. I've attended more Jewish prayer services than I care to admit to. I took informal classes on it (do not ask). I've heard explanations from devout Jews. I still have no clue what they're all talking about. It seems like intentional infliction of boredom, but that cannot possibly be the purpose.

I've attended a Christian service only once, a wedding. I understood that. But I recall very little about it.

Quote: Nareed

I understood that. But I recall very little about it.

Christian sermons all have the same theme.
Be good, do what god wants. God always
comes across as the stern parent who loves
you, but has a hard time showing it. And
even though he is not loveable in the
least, you have to love him with all your
heart. Because this is impossible, let the
guilt parade begin.

You constantly fall short of what god wants,
and are constantly reminded of it. The
guilt is ever present, and ever sustained by
the clergy. Whatever keeps the coffers filled
is their motto.

Quote: Nareed

Oh, there is a fourth mistake:

4) You seem to have confused an inability to comprehend religion as an attack on religion. Otherwise I can't explain why you came back from your trip with guns blazing.

Seriously, I don't get it. I've attended more Jewish prayer services than I care to admit to. I took informal classes on it (do not ask). I've heard explanations from devout Jews. I still have no clue what they're all talking about. It seems like intentional infliction of boredom, but that cannot possibly be the purpose.

I've attended a Christian service only once, a wedding. I understood that. But I recall very little about it.

That was indeed a mistake.

Thanks for your kind words about my trip, it was great. I do love Rome and I'm not sure why. It is really a big, dirty, crazy city - which is not down my alley - yet Rome is a special exception for me.

Anyway, I think I was jet-lagged tired, just getting over some food poisoning, and after reading the religious posts I had missed during the trip I didn't know how quite to respond. So I just wrote a little bit about why I just don't get atheism. It turned out to be a little more of a slam on it then a statement of incomprehension. Sorry about that, and thanks again.

Quote: FrGamble

That was indeed a mistake.

You know, it's too bad you can't get married. You'd make a fine husband for some very lucky woman.

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Thanks for your kind words about my trip, it was great.

You're welcome.

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I do love Rome and I'm not sure why.

I'll venture a guess and say it's not because the Pantheon is there ;)

Quote: Nareed

The whole religion idea. I don't get it.

Even aside from the terrorism and other barbarisms against culture and humanity, Mohammed deserves a punch in eye for coming up with the idea that people need to pray 5 times a day.

Quote: rxwine

Even aside from the terrorism and other barbarisms against culture and humanity, Mohammed deserves a punch in eye for coming up with the idea that people need to pray 5 times a day.

Yeah, and who came up with that whole tithing thing? Dig deep enough and there is a banker behind everything nefarious. It is all about control, and religion stops the poor from eating the rich.

Is there anything authentic to Christianity? The
Jesus myth it totally stolen from the Egyptians,
all of it. Christmas and Easter were stolen from
the pagans. The celebration of the solstice and
the equinox were celebrated by the pagans for
a thousand years before Jesus. The early Church
needed to do this because
they couldn't compete with the huge pagan
holidays, so they confiscated them. Elevating Mary
to almost godlike rank is stolen directly from
the pagan goddess. Even the 'miracles' of
Jesus are stolen from myths of the past.

Are people told all this while they sit in the pew?
You betcha, not..

Because almost nothing in the religion is original or authentic,
it would be dangerous to look at it as anything other
than a metaphor. Taking it word for word as the truth, when
we know for a fact most of it has been stolen whole
cloth from other myths, would be a very unwise path to
follow.

I think if you bother to really examine the Egyptian myths you will see how ridiculous your reference to stealing "all of it" will be. There are certain similarities and huge differences. If anything you could say that the Egyptian myths like other ancient myths or pagan practices are foreshadowing and grasping at a truth to come.

Let's briefly look at what makes Christianity so radically different than anything before and since. The first point, which I can tell is very frustrating to you because you lament it all the time, is that Jesus Christ is real. Christianity makes a historical claim, with dates, historical personages, and places. There is no ancient manuscript more attested than the Bible. Secular historians all mention it, archeology backs it up, in short it is real. It confronts you with facts and history not shrouded fantastical stories.

Christianity also presents a God who has fully become one of us. He was truly born into this world, helpless and wrapped in swaddling clothes. He lived as a poor man in a carpenter shop, unknown for most of His life. There has never been a monotheistic religion that claims God became man. He came to serve, not to be served. This represents a radical shift in religion and is completely original. He knows what it is like to suffer, to stub His toe, to lose friends, to cry, to laugh, drink and eat, and even die. No longer is God a divine cheerleader in the sky or going through the motions as some majestic manifestation on earth, He is one of us and He knows us. What amazing news and what stupendous love.

There is other examples all throughout religious history of the god-king, savior, warrior dying to free his people in sacrifice. There are also examples of resurrection after such events. These point to the most profound truth of Christianity that Jesus Christ has willingly given up His life so death and sin no longer have power over us. He has freed us from the impossible burden of the law with its guilt and shame. By conquering death in the Resurrection we too share in that ultimate hope.

Quote: FrGamble

If anything you could say that the Egyptian myths like other ancient myths or pagan practices are foreshadowing and grasping at a truth to come.

You may as well say the Egyptians stole Christianity's ideas before they happened.

Similar ideas crop up all the time. Some are stolen, some are remembered subconsciously, some are coincidences. You cannot take every coincidence in a widespread phenomenon, religion, and proclaim it proof of anything.

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Let's briefly look at what makes Christianity so radically different than anything before and since.

It establishes a political, moral and epistemological ideology. This makes it capable, as no religion ever had before, of exerting power effectively.

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The first point, which I can tell is very frustrating to you because you lament it all the time, is that Jesus Christ is real.

So was Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus Augustus. Neither of them was a god.

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Secular historians all mention it,

Secular historians mention ancient documents all the time. The best, and thus preferred, means of historical examinations is to use documents from an era. That's why it gets mentioned. That's also why there's much mention of the Iliad.

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archeology backs it up,

Not as much as you would have us believe.

The really funny thing is how when archeology and history turn up zero evidence for a part of the Bible, the theists insist it's real anyway. As in the Exodus.

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He lived as a poor man in a carpenter shop,

A carpenter in Judea at the time would have been rather well off. One of the very diminutive middle class, at least, or above if he had good business sense or good connections.

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There has never been a monotheistic religion that claims God became man.

Ah, but plenty of polytheistic religions portray their gods as human, only with special powers. They eat, drink, have sex (unlike Jesus), are wounded and even get killed. Some of them resurrect.

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He knows what it is like to suffer, to stub His toe, to lose friends, to cry, to laugh, drink and eat, and even die.

He doesn't know how to love a woman, or a man, intimately, which really matters. He has no clue about raising a family.

In essence Jesus was probably impotent, and spent his time claiming to know better than anyone else about everything, all while having not a single familial responsibility or obligation (unlike 99.99999% of the rest of humanity at the time). In short he was an overgrown rebellious teenager, or a tenured professor.

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These point to the most profound truth of Christianity that Jesus Christ has willingly given up His life so death and sin no longer have power over us. He has freed us from the impossible burden of the law with its guilt and shame. By conquering death in the Resurrection we too share in that ultimate hope.

I understand the words, but when put together they convey no meaning I can discern.

Quote: Nareed

You cannot take every coincidence in a widespread phenomenon, religion, and proclaim it proof of anything.

Actually you can and have basis for doing so. The only thing you can't do is say it is proof of nothing.

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It establishes a political, moral and epistemological ideology. This makes it capable, as no religion ever had before, of exerting power effectively.

Power? Have you read the teachings of Jesus?

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So was Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus Augustus. Neither of them was a god.

I do enjoy it when we agree on something.

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He doesn't know how to love a woman, or a man, intimately, which really matters. He has no clue about raising a family.

What would make you say this? I imagine it is that your idea of love is different than His. Love for Jesus is the most intimate and true because it is unconditional and involves a willingness to sacrifice for the other. It also is not hung up on genital activity.