I don't get it

The whole religion idea. I don't get it.

I understand praying to a deity and making offerings (sacrifices, money, gifts, time, whatever) in order to obtain something. it's a waste of time, effort and money, but it makes sense if you believe in such things. It's a logical action that follows logically from a false premise.

I understand the Egyptian practice of preserving the body and possessions for the afterlife, as well as the elaborate tombs, the tomb paintings, the pyramid texts (not confined to pyramids), the books buried with the deceased, the magical servant figurines, the funerary models, the mortuary temples, even the Ka statues. Again, logical actions which logically follows false premises.

That's about as much as I comprehend regarding religion. When it comes to Judaism, I never understood the point of a prayer service. Oh, I do when there is a ritual involved, like a wedding, because there is a point to it. I understand the purpose of a Passover Seder, too. But not the thrice daily (four times on Saturday) prayers.

When it comes to Christianity, it's a complete blank, a gaping black hole. Again, though, I do understand rituals such as weddings and baptisms, as there is a point to them. But everything else I've ever heard, read and seen simply fails to make sense to me. I gather much if not all of the whole thing is to be "saved." Even if I'm right, "salvation" also fails to make any sense.

This isn't because there is no such entity as "God." I can assume that premise and see what happens. See above what I say about sacrifices and Egyptian burials. I no more believe in Athena, Ist and Ares than I do in Jehovah. And I do understand some Christian and Jewish practices, or superstitions, such as wearing a crucifix for protection, or carrying a copy of the road prayer (literal translation) in one's car for the same reason.

Quote: Nareed

The whole religion idea. I don't get it.

Religion was invented, so the poor don't eat the rich.

The Mayo [of all places] has suggested I try meditation, along with bio-feedback.

Do you think it is possible that a "worm hole" is the same as a "black hole", that everything is circular and we are all experiencing one giant feedback loop with parallel universe's?

So far, it is helping.

Quote: Nareed

When it comes to Christianity, it's a complete blank, a gaping black hole. Again, though, I do understand rituals such as weddings and baptisms, as there is a point to them. But everything else I've ever heard, read and seen simply fails to make sense to me. I gather much if not all of the whole thing is to be "saved." Even if I'm right, "salvation" also fails to make any sense..

That's because you reject the initial premise,
original sin, or sin at all, for that matter. Once
you embrace that outlandish concept, your
mind now opens to even more ridiculous
ideas. Once you leave the world of reality,
you'll believe anything.

Religion was invented by smart people who
wanted power. There was no money, so they
enslaved people with there intellectual concepts.
Works well on uneducated, superstitious people.
You get to run everything and get to live a pretty
good life.

Quote: Nareed

The whole religion idea. I don't get it.

I try, but can't ever really rise to that level.

Like my love for the Leafs. It's not rational. I'm not Canadian. They're not that good. Oftentimes, they're downright terrible. But I believe there the best franchise is professional sports, period.

Why? Dunno. Despite me being able to see the break in logic, I feel that they're the best. And I'll claim they are the best, and I wear the attire in support, and I tithe to TicketMaster to show support, and I attend the church of First Niagara Arena to engage in worship and prayer... but even with these deep feelings, I still can't fool myself into losing objectivity. I could wax poetically about their history and deep meaning behind their existence and accomplishments, but when TheCessPit comes in to challenge these claims, I'd have to admit he's right. I'd have to.

The church doesn't allow for that, and it's the weirdest thing on Earth. Were you to make some of religion's claims in anything but the name of religion, you would be classified as insane. I don't get how one book, which is supposed to be infallible, can have so many different meanings to people who have all read the same book. I don't get how all these things attributed to God are things I possess, when I have had little to no exposure to church or religion, and actively resist it. I don't get how people believe someone rose from actual death, that we actually consume the Lord God, or a host of other stuff that gets splattered upon my wall of reason.

I... well, I'm same as Nareed. I just don't get it.

Quote: Face

The church doesn't allow for that, and it's the weirdest thing on Earth. Were you to make some of religion's claims in anything but the name of religion, you would be classified as insane. .

They're accepted because they've been
grandfathered in. Your grandparents
and their grandparents and on and on
all believed it, so it's stood the test of
time. Doesn't mean it's true, it's just
been around long enough that people
tolerate it without locking believers in
the loony bin.

It's comical now that Christians have been
forced to behave themselves and aren't
forcibly converting people anymore. But
for a very long time there was nothing
comical about it at all.

Quote: Face

Like my love for the Leafs. It's not rational.

No team stays good forever. The teams fans keep being fans of it just the same. But that doesn't make it a religion.

Quote:

I don't get how one book, which is supposed to be infallible, can have so many different meanings to people who have all read the same book.

Or contain so many mistakes and omissions?

Quote:

I don't get how people believe someone rose from actual death, that we actually consume the Lord God,

I get why and how they can believe such things. In the case of consuming the transubstantiated Jehovah/Jesus, what I fail to understand is why they would want to.

Quote: Nareed

I get why and how they can believe such things. In the case of consuming the transubstantiated Jehovah/Jesus, what I fail to understand is why they would want to.

It's disgusting on a primitive level. Cannibalism
is not natural for mammals, most do not feed
on their own kind. Forcing someone to do it
for religious reasons just sends off alarm bells
in my head on so many levels. You want me
to eat and drink what? Are you nuts?

Quote: Nareed

The whole religion idea. I don't get it.

Never underestimate the ignorant or the madness of crowds.

Some nun went to South America to help the poor and they turned her into a diapered vegetable because they somehow thought that despite a lack of medical instruments and a lack of refrigeration she wanted their children's organs.

As to priests having ulterior motives you need only look to Operation Bicycle Gate and Operation Yewtree in the UK.

The whole atheism idea. I don't get it.

There is nothing on earth or in the heavens that would make me think for a second that there is no God. Putting aside the question in the main of why their exists something rather than nothing, which I have never heard an atheist give even close to an attempt much less an answer to, there is nothing that would lend one to think there is no God. There is tons of evidence leading to, but never proving in a mathematical sense, that there is a God. All of which is quickly and summarily dismissed by atheists. Yet there is not one shred of evidence to support the crazy idea that there is no God, yet they continue to hold such a ridiculous position as if it were absolutely true. Much more they pretend to think that their refutation of the evidence is somehow intellectual and think it a defense of their position that they need not provide any to not-think that something exists. To hold a contrary position you usually have to have reasons. Why people are atheists never seems to boil done to rational reasons, but they seem okay with that. I've never really gotten that.

Outside of using our brains, there is something just not right in my craw about atheism. In my heart I have a hard time looking at the world around us and the universe we live in and thinking there is no divine purpose or meaning to any of it. The raw majestic beauty of nature alone is enough to convert. Stories of miracles, spiritual experiences, the supernatural are more numerous than the sand on the seashore. There is preponderance of evidence in these shared experiences that points to the fact that there is more to this life than we know. Now some atheists will say that you can find beauty in accidental causes and point to the glory of a fractal and say look at the universe as one big beautiful snowflake to appreciate it. Very nice.

Then you have to look at the flip side of that snowflake. What are we to make of the injustice and disgusting evil that exists all around us? I refuse to think that children who die of starvation, just live out miserable lives and fade into nothingness. I refuse to believe that those who prey upon others, cheat, lie, and steal can die a happy and fulfilled life. There is something in me, in all of us I believe, that longs for justice - justice of an complete kind. Where the children who are forgotten, abused, hungry, or blind rejoice forever in the joys of heaven. Those who hate, kill, and destroy are the only ones who are forgotten. This ugly side of the snowflake is hard to look at for theists and atheists. Some people think this evil proves that either God is not all-powerful, all-knowing, or loving. This argument I get. Except that if you hold a theist to it you are acknowledging two important things: that there is something not right about this world and that everyone objectively knows it. Neither of these things most atheists are comfortable acknowledging.

However, in acknowledging this the atheist is finally right about something! There is something wrong and we feel it in our gut. We feel it personally because there is something wrong in us. We fight against temptations and dream about being better versions of ourselves. Why is that? We also realize that there are objective good and evil. Some things are just wrong - like hating a person because of the color of their skin, their gender, religion or lack thereof, or sexual orientation. If we were to make up our own rules about morality what a mess we would be in. Case in point, the 20th century. By far the most violent and bloody century in human history. However, if atheism is right what difference does it make? Well here again the atheist rather pompously points out that there are good for goodness sake and not because of some fear of an unseen God. Very good of them. They of course ignore the point of objective morality, but one must commend them for their virtue. What however is it about atheism that inspires such virtue? Nothing.

And really here you have it for me. I don't get atheism because it is really nothing. It has nothing for it, it adds nothing to life, it inspires no one, it is just nothing... One can only pray that out of this nothingness God's love may create something new and exciting that adds reason, purpose, meaning, and morality to existence because otherwise I simply don't get it.

Quote: FrGamble

The whole atheism idea. I don't get it.

Welcome back!

I'll reply later.

I hope you had a good trip.