I wonder

Quote: FrGamble

Considering the brutal persecution of Christians under three centuries of Roman Emperors during the fledgling stage of this young religion before Constantine, it is clear through history that your theory holds no water.

What's this fixation with persecution and suffering? Furthermore, what does it have to do with the price of beer?

Suppose Constantine does not convert to Christianity, but does issue the Edict of Milan proclaiming toleration of all religions. Without the backing of Rome's might, and the incentive to convert to Christianity or face higher taxes, lesser job prospects and constant irritations, Christianity today might be a subset of Judaism popular in a few Middle East countries and obscure parts of Europe. You'd have a few Christian communities all over the world, as there are Jewish ones, and number perhaps ten or twenty million people.

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Isn't Akhenaton interesting?

More like intriguing.

You know what else? He was preaching true monotheism ages before Moses lived (or perhaps was invented).

But, really, his influence extended to latter pharaohs wanting to erase his memory and those of his immediate associates. I do wonder if this, in ay way, contributed to the safe-keeping of Tutankhamun's tomb so it was found intact in the XX Century. If so, that was Akhenaton's greatest contribution to history.

Quote: Nareed

What's this fixation with persecution and suffering? Furthermore, what does it have to do with the price of beer?

Just to point out that usually when the Roman Empire threw its weight behind crushing a small group of fishermen and their religion which was in direct opposition to the state religion of the time, we usually would not hear or know of these fishermen and their ideas. However, many more people know today about these fishermen than they do about the Roman Emperors who attempted to snuff them out. It's just another example of many that shows the historical significance and uniqueness of Christianity.

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Suppose Constantine does not convert to Christianity, but does issue the Edict of Milan proclaiming toleration of all religions. Without the backing of Rome's might, and the incentive to convert to Christianity or face higher taxes, lesser job prospects and constant irritations, Christianity today might be a subset of Judaism popular in a few Middle East countries and obscure parts of Europe. You'd have a few Christian communities all over the world, as there are Jewish ones, and number perhaps ten or twenty million people.

As both you and I have mentioned before the acceptance of Christianity by Constantine had some ill effects as well. If this would not have happened then maybe the entire world would be Christian today.

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More like intriguing.

You know what else? He was preaching true monotheism ages before Moses lived (or perhaps was invented).

Yeah, he seems like he was really on to something and obviously hit a nerve. Maybe he was close to the truth and a truth that would have crumbled the false gods and myths of old Egypt. This might explain the vitriol and desire from others to erase his name. Very interesting guy.

Quote: FrGamble

To practice one of these ancient religions would be trying to go back to something that everyone else has already moved past because there is something better.

So fundamental values should be based on what is currently popular and if the fads change next year we should change with them and not think independently. Thou art strange, FrGamble. Please inform the Benedictine Monks to change their formula for the centuries old beverage they brew and shift to brewing Budweiser.

There is nothing better than Benedictine or Trappist beer so they will not brewing Budweiser. Truth is not based on quantity, but quality.

Quote: FrGamble

Just to point out that usually when the Roman Empire threw its weight behind crushing a small group of fishermen and their religion which was in direct opposition to the state religion of the time, we usually would not hear or know of these fishermen and their ideas.

The Roman Empire ever threw its weight behind that. If they had, you'd be a priest of Serapis, Jupiter, or, more likely, Ahura Mazda.

There were sporadic persecutions, yes, and many martyrs, too. But if you want to know what things look like when the Romans throw their weight behind something, I refer you to Carthage.

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As both you and I have mentioned before the acceptance of Christianity by Constantine had some ill effects as well. If this would not have happened then maybe the entire world would be Christian today.

I'm reminded of a rather vulgar, crude phrase used in he old SNL "Wayne's World" sketches... Not that I would ever say it. So I'll just go with a Spanish stand-in, which even Spanish speakers rarely understand: ¿Y tu nieve de que sabor?

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Maybe he was close to the truth

So the Sun's disk is the one true God?

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[..]and a truth that would have crumbled the false gods and myths of old Egypt.

Really, now. If Toth did not create writing, then who did?

Quote: Nareed

The Roman Empire ever threw its weight behind that. If they had, you'd be a priest of Serapis, Jupiter, or, more likely, Ahura Mazda.

There were sporadic persecutions, yes, and many martyrs, too. But if you want to know what things look like when the Romans throw their weight behind something, I refer you to Carthage.

Ha, that would never happen. Rome could use flying monkeys and they would never be able to defeat truth. Veritas valebit.

Quote: FrGamble

Rome could use flying monkeys and they would never be able to defeat truth. Veritas valebit.

If this myth is indestructible, then what does it matter whether its adherents were persecuted or not? It was destined to be keep on going anyway. So pretty much all the early martyrs died for nothing.

Quote: Nareed

So pretty much all the early martyrs died for nothing.

Pretty much. Martyrdom is the ultimate
ego trip. You're sooooo important that
if you die for your religion you will be
remembered and praised. Another example
of the me me me religion. God has a
plan for YOU, Jesus died for YOU, god is
watching YOU, he cares about YOU. Just
attend one church service and your ego will
get a huge boost. The whole world is about
YOU!

Quote: FrGamble

It would seem to me like you were trying to go backwards in the evolution of religion. Some people really like to write with a goose feather and ink. They think it special, but there have been vast improvements that are much less messy. To practice one of these ancient religions would be trying to go back to something that everyone else has already moved past because there is something better.

If you concede that religion comes about from evolution - do you also concede that the ultimate evolution of religion is atheism?

Quote: aceofspades

If you concede that religion comes about from evolution - do you also concede that the ultimate evolution of religion is atheism?

In fact, that's what's predicted. In 300
years the Church will be a novelty
and the Vatican a museum. Sure
there are more Christians than ever,
but there are more people than ever.
The trend among people between 16
and 30 is already towards no religion.
The more educated the world gets,
the more godless it gets.