What is manna anyway?

Quote: FrGamble

In the morning there was a white covering over the ground, kind of like frost, that could be gathered and eaten.

That's the same type of description my Jewish upbringing taught me - with the added description that it had the look of cotton (or cotton candy), but it could taste like anything you would think of.

That last part reminds me of the food Dave Bowman found in the hotel room on the far side of the galaxy in the book version of 2001. It was a blue clumpy food with the consistency of macaroons, but could taste like anything.

Quote: Wizard

This is getting off topic, but why did god lead his "chosen people" to the only place in the Middle East without oil?

Abraham (born Abram) who was 11 generations descended from Noah was born in Ur where there would one day be oil wells. He was the one who went to what was then called Canaan first. He gave birth to Isaac at the age of 100. He died at the age of 175.



Although it is difficult to date since the stories use such expanded age lengths, Generally Abraham is thought to have lived 4000 years ago. At that time there were no primitive oil wells (which didn't show up in China for another 2000+ years), but oil was gathered from pits. It was of some value even then for asphalt, medicinal and lighting for the rich.

If they made bread out of it, it was
some kind of seed that could be
ground into flour. Another Bible
'miracle'. Yawn. The real miracle is
they made a religion out of all
this.

Quote: Pacomartin

He gave birth to Isaac at the age of 100. He died at the age of 175.

If you believe that, I've got this bridge I may be persuaded to sell ;)

Quote: Nareed

If you believe that, I've got this bridge I may be persuaded to sell ;)

For centuries scholars have struggled with the timeline. The most obvious assumption is that the word for month and the word for year got confused. That would make Methuselah's age at death 969 months /12 = 80.75 years which would have been very long lived for ancient times (but not physically impossible).

If Noah was age 600 at the time of the flood, if that was in months, he would have have been 50 years old. But the timeline has him leaving his father (Lamech) and his grandfather (Methuselah) to drown in the flood.

But the other problem is the overlap. If you look at when Adam died at age 930 there are 8 generations of sons who were already born. It is impossible to have 9 generations alive at the same time.



But after the flood, the lifespans shorten considerably. If Abraham lived to age 175 and had a son at age 100 the numbers are way to small to be months.

If you say the ages are simply legends, then why were they so specific? Why did Adam live 930 years, and Seth live 912 years, and Methuselah live 969 years? Why not just say "they lived a very long long time"?

It ties in with the historical Jewish obsession with numbers and their hidden meanings.

Quote: Pacomartin

But after the flood, the lifespans shorten considerably. If Abraham lived to age 175 and had a son at age 100 the numbers are way to small to be months.

Good. You'll need this kind of nimble thinking o your feet to make the deed to the bridge stick :)

Quote: Pacomartin

For centuries scholars have struggled with the timeline.

They shouldn't.

Most cultures imagine a past filled with heroes, great deeds, miracles, great men (rarely great women), etc. The Israelites gave their mythical ancestors long lives.

It gets ridiculous, too, in all cultures. The Greeks, for example, accomplished great deeds themselves, such as stopping the might of the Persian empire at the Peloponnese, and just look at Greek art, yet they looked with longing at a legendary past that never was.

Perhaps the Romans went much farther because their imagined past was rather tame and not really very great. Romulus is rather nasty for a founding father figure, and Numa didn't really accomplish much your average Roman high-born citizen would regard as worthy. Beyond that, the Seven Kings of Rome were collectively responsible for giving the monarchy such a bad name, that latter Roman monarchs carried on with the pretense of a Republic for centuries.

Quote: Nareed

Most cultures imagine a past filled with heroes, great deeds, miracles, great men (rarely great women), etc. The Israelites gave their mythical ancestors long lives.

Gilgamesh ruled his city for 126 years and he came after the Great Deluge (i.e. Noah's flood) but centuries before Abraham. Like Sampson, he has superhuman strength. But the Epic of Gilgamesh is not perceived as being God's word revealed, so no one worries about the timeline. Plus the form we have today was not written until a thousand years after he died.

Quote: Pacomartin

Gilgamesh ruled his city for 126 years and he came after the Great Deluge

Like that. the Seven Kings of Rome are also described as ruling for decades. Nothing that's obviously an impossibility, but highly unlikely given lifespans at the time and normal political fortunes.

Quote:

But the Epic of Gilgamesh is not perceived as being God's word revealed,

I think someone here will beg to differ ;)

Quote: Nareed

I think someone here will beg to differ ;)

The Epic of Gilgamesh is often considered the first work of literature, and it takes place in Ur (also birthplace of Abraham), but generally believed to be earlier than Abraham (obviously difficult to say with certainty). He is a semi-god who takes a great journey. References are made to the great deluge.

While obviously some biblical scholars refer to it as an outside source that confirms the great flood, I am not aware of any religion that holds it as a sacred text. I don't think anyone gets offended if you call it a "myth". Nobody will come to your office with Kalashnikov rifles for making a joke about Gilgamesh.