Pope Francis

Quote: Evenbob

More than that, how dare they
they dictate morality to the rest
of us. Just yesterday I saw a woman
saying, virgin priests and nuns,
never been married, never raised
a family, yet they tell us what to do
like they're god. In their minds they
are god, they've been brainwashed
into believing it.

Part of my thing is, the way I was raised, honesty was paramount. Being working class for several generations dad told us, all a man really has is his word. My word is my bond,,,,,and all that stuff.

I care not if these priests are gay, not one bit. But I don't like the deceit that they cast upon the world as they pontificate "Gods word", and have so much influence over children.

It's not the sex [between adults] that bothers me, it's the lies.

Quote: petroglyph

It's not the sex [between adults] that bothers me, it's the lies.

Yup. It's the dictating to Gays
how they can live, then sneaking
around in the shadows doing
what you're telling them not
to do. They really need to change
something, this cannot continue.

I've said this before, but until they allow priests and above to marry, they will always have this problem. Humans are sexual animals and if denied an outlet the usual way, will find others. Out own FrG excepted, of course.

Quote: Wizard

I've said this before, but until they allow priests and above to marry, they will always have this problem. Humans are sexual animals and if denied an outlet the usual way, will find others. .

It had nothing to do with god
when they changed the rule about
priest marrying. They used to be
able to marry and have families,
and a lot of the high ranked
members had huge estates
when they died. But they would
leave all this wealth to their fam's
and not the Church. So they finally
made up reasons for priests to
never marry, but the real reason
was a financial one. Like it is with
everything.

Now, FrG was taught something else
in seminary, and he will say, oh Bob,
you are so wrong, as usual. But the
fact is, priests at one time were
allowed to marry, and then they
weren't. And it was removed because
of the money issue.

"A.W. Richard Sipe, a former priest and author of Sex, Priests and Power: The Anatomy of Crisis (1995), wrote that the"question at the time was who is the final power -- the king or the church. If [the church] could control a person's sex life, it could control their money, their employment, their benefice."

It was all about having total control
of the clergy, it had nothing to do
with spirituality. The Church is
the greediest institution on the
planet, it's always wanted everything
for itself.

A couple of things.

First of all there have always been celibate priests and there have always been married priests. It is still that way today. There were historical abuses that led to the discipline of celibacy being the norm. I don't think the stats bear out any of the concern that it is celibacy or some kind of repressed sexuality that causes this behavior.

What the stats do clearly show is that the vast majority, more than 80% of the priests who committed these abuses were homosexual.

The other thing is that I don't underatand how someone's immoral actions mean that what they believe or teach is wrong. That seems like a logical fallacy.

Quote: Evenbob

It had nothing to do with god
when they changed the rule about
priest marrying.

I'm too lazy to look up the passage but I think one of Paul's books says that if a man marries his heart is divided between his wife and god. I think the church would say they are looking for priests who can devote their focus 100% to god.

My opinion is that Paul was simply wrong. Normal men simply need a sexual release. If they can't get it from adult women, then children are easy targets.

Quote: Wizard

Normal men simply need a sexual release.

That's what the Protestants thought. Remember,
the first Protestants were Catholics, Luther was
a priest, I believe. They immediately tossed out
the celibacy thing, saying basically that if it
doesn't go into a woman, it's going on the
ground or into your pants, the semen, that is.
So let them marry. (I just read that 'onto the
ground or in your pants' thing, so don't
accuse me of making it up, FrG. I don't make
things up.)

Bob, you do make stuff up but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

Do you all really think that without sex or masturbation a human being goes crazy and has to turn to some criminal act of abuse?

Quote: FrGamble

Do you all really think that without sex or masturbation a human being goes crazy and has to turn to some criminal act of abuse?

Which human being, there are 7 billion
of them. You really can't generalize here,
you have to be very specific.

Do you think men who prayerfully prepare and are formed on their intelect and will for seven years for the challenges, sacrifices, and gifts of celibacy will turn to some kind of sick abuse if they don't have sex or masturbate?