Airbus 380

Quote: Pacomartin

The problem is that the Japanese do fly high density flights. They pack out some B777 with 500 seats (over 90% of maximum allowable capacity). Not one single USA airline flies a widebody with anywhere near maximum capacity. Many fly narrowbody airframes that way (Spirit Airline is probably the most extreme).

Perhaps we need new definitions of maximum if not even Sardine Airlines flying generally slender people will cram in the official maximum.

In the news today was a snippet about Virgin Australia which flies many Boeings and a few Airbus has turned a profit based upon lower fuel prices.

Some of the claims seem wrong
Allegiant airlines has 177 seats in 30 rows on Airbus 320.
Spirit airlines has 178 seats in 30 rows on Airbus 320
Maximum is 180 seats in 30 rows on Airbus 320

But Sprit acknowledges a 28" pitch except in front row, while Allegiant claims a 30" pitch with 34" pitch on three rows. Either Allegiant is lying or they found an extra 6' of aircraft somehow (without eliminating a restroom).

Quote: Fleastiff

Perhaps we need new definitions of maximum if not even Sardine Airlines flying generally slender people will cram in the official maximum.

So I agree that 28" is criiminal, and it should be a minimum of 30". But with saddle seats they are talking about 24".
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Japan airlines puts 500 seats in a B77-300 (which is certified for 550) for short single class mostly domestic flights. But thy fly the same airframe with as little as 232 seats.

British Airways flies an A328 (certified for 136 seats) with only 32 seats from JFK to London City. Being a small plane it must stop and refuel at Shannon Airport in Ireland on the way back (against the trade winds), but one one of the two daily flights you can go through US customs at Shannon and depart at JFK as a domestic passenger. The time you save in customs makes up for the half hour lost in refueling.

But Emirates uses the entire upper deck of their A380 as exclusive seating (only 90 seats in a space certified for 315) and the first class passengers even have two showers. This is where they make their really big bucks.

Quote: Pacomartin

Either Allegiant is lying or they found an extra 6' of aircraft somehow (without eliminating a restroom).

The devil is in the details.

Three planes are often identified as A-320 in the press: the A-319, the A-320 and the A-321. The first is the smallest (shortest) version, the middle one is the actual A-320, the latter is the stretched version.

US Airways fits 187 people in an A-321: http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/US_Airways/US_Airways_Airbus_A321.php

But assuming an actual A-320 in all cases, then someone's lying. or maybe just "lying," you know as in "we rounded up to 30" from 29.0000000001 inches."

Check Seat Guru. I've found them very accurate in the past.

Quote: Nareed

Check Seat Guru. I've found them very accurate in the past.

Seatguru is my go to web site regarding seats.

Quote: Nareed

Three planes are often identified as A-320 in the press: the A-319, the A-320 and the A-321. The first is the smallest (shortest) version, the middle one is the actual A-320, the latter is the stretched version.

Technically the A-318 is part of the same family, but I don't think it is produced anymore since it is now in direct competition with the Russian, Canadian, and Brasilian jets.

Quote: Nareed

But assuming an actual A-320 in all cases, then someone's lying. or maybe just "lying," you know as in "we rounded up to 30" from 29.0000000001 inches." Check Seat Guru. I've found them very accurate in the past.

The Airbus site lists the cabin 27.51 meters = 1083", but presumably that includes the rest rooms, the drink preparation areas, and passageways. It confirms maximum seating is 180.

From Seat Guru
Spirit: 29 rows *28" + 36=848"
Allegiant: 27 rows *30" + 3 rows *34"=912"

Spirit: 29*6+4=178 seats
Allegiant: 29*6+3=177 seats

That's a difference of 64" =5.33' but there is nothing obvious in the diagram that accounts for such a big difference in the cabin.

Seatguru doesn't do a diagram of Viva aerobus which also has high density seating in the A320

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Spirit_Airlines/Spirit_Airlines_Airbus_A320.php
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Allegiant_Air/Allegiant_Air_Airbus_A320.php

If Interjet only has 25 rows (instead of 30) the leg room must border on business class (although it is still 3 and 3). But Interjet loading rate is very low, so most middle seats are empty.

Quote: Pacomartin

The Airbus site lists the cabin 27.51 meters = 1083", but presumably that includes the rest rooms, the drink preparation areas, and passageways.

Remember when the "drink preparation areas" was called the galley?

Quote:

If Interjet only has 25 rows (instead of 30) the leg room must border on business class (although it is still 3 and 3). But Interjet loading rate is very low, so most middle seats are empty.

So much the better. And you should see the leg room on the exit row!

I wonder what and when a seat costs?
A seat inflicts a cost on the airline at "turnaround time"...entrance and exit time. Negligible if once a day.
A seat inflicts a cost on the airline every time it is empty.
A seat inflicts a cost on the airline every time it makes a customer swear "Never This Airline Again".
Sure no Arab Sheik will fly "cattle class" but just how much extra would an average business man pay to avoid "cattle class" and be able stretch out in a No Kids and Only Young Attractive Women Area?

Perhaps a whole line of "jump seats" which if unused leaves a wider aisle? Or interlineated jump seats which provide leg room if not occupied? Or a discount for "underweight" passengers flying TB class: Thin Butt.

Quote: Fleastiff

Sure no Arab Sheik will fly "cattle class" but just how much extra would an average business man pay to avoid "cattle class" and be able stretch out in a No Kids and Only Young Attractive Women Area?

Interjet in Mexico is doing what no airline in the USA is doing. It does not have business class, but instead flies one class in relative comfort. With only 25 rows instead of the maximum of 30, everyone has leg room. They also way undersell the planes so that almost all of the middle seats are empty.

And they give away booze (beer wine or hard liquor) even though most flights are domestic.



Jetblue is the closest thing to Interjet among USA airlines. It is nominally a low cost carrier, but treats it's passengers with a modicum of decency.

Quote: Pacomartin

Interjet in Mexico is doing what no airline in the USA is doing. It does not have business class, but instead flies one class in relative comfort. With only 25 rows instead of the maximum of 30, everyone has leg room. They also way undersell the planes so that almost all of the middle seats are empty.

And they give away booze (beer wine or hard liquor) even though most flights are domestic.

Jetblue is the closest thing to Interjet among USA airlines. It is nominally a low cost carrier, but treats it's passengers with a modicum of decency.

Great. For years Bean Counters say "load factor" but Interjet probably has LOYAL LOADS. And the booze is a good idea because SELLING it (cash, cards, matchsticks or kisses) is far more troublesome and time consuming than it is worth. Faster, easier particularly on a short haul flight to just give the booze away.

Underselling? H'mm, would they actually turn away paying passengers and fly empty seats?

One of these days, I swear an airline will actually order a Deluxe Size Bathroom and that "extra" space for the passenger's convenience will definitely pay off, particularly if they have a Ladies Only choice. Sure on a short haul its less critical but it would bring in far more loyal customers than ten thousand imaginary Mile Points would.

Quote: Pacomartin

Interjet in Mexico is doing what no airline in the USA is doing. It does not have business class, but instead flies one class in relative comfort. With only 25 rows instead of the maximum of 30, everyone has leg room. They also way undersell the planes so that almost all of the middle seats are empty.

Not only that, they allow 25 kg of luggage on domestic flights and 50 on international ones.

The only "sneaky" cost-saving measure they've done, that I know of, is remove the fee for changing flights. it was about $10. You also paid the fare difference. but if you picked a lower fare, they paid you the difference. Now there's no fee anymore, but you pay the difference if you pick a higher fare. fi the fare is lower you're stuck with what you've already paid.

All in all that's not so bad.

The last ten times I've flown it there was limited or no overhead video service at all. But in these days of audiobooks and such, I don't think it matters any more. I wish they'd get in-flight WiFi. That would be awesome.

Quote:

And they give away booze (beer wine or hard liquor) even though most flights are domestic.

But only after 12 pm.

Last time I noticed, they had vodka, rum, tequila, some kind of white wine and perhaps two types of beer.

The coffee is drinkable, which for airline coach coffee it's high praise.