Airbus 380

Quote: Pacomartin

There are only 5 airlines in the world with a flight over 8300 miles. I think they will simply wait until there is a plane that can fly the LHR to SYD route before they try in-air refueling.

The point would be not having to burn fuel to carry fuel. But as I noted, it's not economical.

What's the fuel to weight ratio for modern jets? On one end, for cars and trucks the fuel is about 3% or less of the mass of the vehicle. For rockets it's 95%. I heard once for a jet it was about 50%

Military jets often have to recalculate weight and balance after taxing for take off because fuel burn is such a sensitive issue.

Refueling is done at maximum power for both planes and is demanding flying.

The Falklands War required 12 tankers and two bombers for trip from Ascension Island to knock out a runway for half a day.

Refueling can result in hydrocarbon intoxication leaving a pilot mentally disoriented and psychotic

DFW SYD I never sell
JNB ATL I sell sometime but ususally put people on SA JNB DKR IAD because can connect to UA
AUH LAX never sell
DXB LAX never sell
JED LAX never sell
DFW HKG sell very little
JFK HKG I sell very very little and probabbly not CX
EWR HKG I sell a ton, I use that for EWR HKG SIN also
DOH IAH never sell
JFK CAN never sell
JNB NYC usually sell JNB IAD instead , can connect to UA domestic
YYZ HKG never sell
BOM EWR, never sell AI, I stay away from AI, allways sell UA this route
JFK TPE never sell
TLV LAX never sell
LAX SYD I sell sometimes but not on VA
JFK PVG I may sell but not on MU. I only sell MU CZ and CA in China, never internationally

Quote: terapined

JNB ATL I sell sometime but ususally put people on SA JNB DKR IAD because can connect to UA
...
JNB NYC usually sell JNB IAD instead , can connect to UA domestic

Tambo International Airport, Johannesburg, ZA (JNB) to Washington Dulles Intl, Washington, DC (IAD) is 8130 miles. That should be doable by 787-9 (although it is 209 miles further than the longest flight for that airframe today).

Boeing 787-8 San Francisco to Chengdu 6,870 miles United Airlines UA 9
Boeing 787-9 Los Angeles to Melbourne 7,921 miles United Airlines UA 98

United has received all 12 of it's 787-8 Dreamliners, but only 3 of 26 787-9 Dreamliners. Presumably it will put one on this route and avoid the refuel stop in Dakar.

The POTUS must refuel in Dakar when he goes to JNB.


Why are your customers so loyal to the Star Alliance? I should think you would have a significant percentage of OneWorld or Sky Team fans.

United clearly has more Available Seat Miles on international flights than the other airlines, but you would think some people live near a different airport than a United hub.
100% United
84% Delta
65% American
20% USAirways

Quote: terapined

EWR HKG I sell a ton, I use that for EWR HKG SIN also

I though United did EWR to SIN via Tokyo, and Cathay Pacific did the flight via Hong Kong, Do you fly United to HKG and then change airlines?

Quote: Pacomartin

Tambo International Airport, Johannesburg, ZA (JNB) to Washington Dulles Intl, Washington, DC (IAD) is 8130 miles. That should be doable by 787-9 (although it is 209 miles further than the longest flight for that airframe today).

Boeing 787-8 San Francisco to Chengdu 6,870 miles United Airlines UA 9
Boeing 787-9 Los Angeles to Melbourne 7,921 miles United Airlines UA 98

United has received all 12 of it's 787-8 Dreamliners, but only 3 of 26 787-9 Dreamliners. Presumably it will put one on this route and avoid the refuel stop in Dakar.

The POTUS must refuel in Dakar when he goes to JNB.


Why are your customers so loyal to the Star Alliance? I should think you would have a significant percentage of OneWorld or Sky Team fans.

United clearly has more Available Seat Miles on international flights than the other airlines, but you would think some people live near a different airport than a United hub.
100% United
84% Delta
65% American
20% USAirways



I though United did EWR to SIN via Tokyo, and Cathay Pacific did the flight via Hong Kong, Do you fly United to HKG and then change airlines?

I made a mistake, I don't sell EWR HKG SIN a lot, I sell ORD HKG SIN on UA a ton, its a direct flight that stops in HKG and continues to SIN.
I use ORD to go to Asia Pacific region, use EWR India and Europe and IAD for Europe.
A lot of what I book is a huge company based in Columbus IN.
They all use IND so routing through ORD easy.
United offers my client company huge discounts as long as they get a big chunk of the business.
Delta wants the business and is offering the same company discounts but their routing is not as good to China as UA.
If leaving out of IND connecting thru ORD easy, plus if low fares sold out, can connect thru IAD or EWR or SFO to get to China and get a good price.
Delta tough because going thru DTW the only single connection to get to China.
American not aggressive in offering my client companies discounts.
American does sometimes load really low fares into our system. They are known as Category 35 fares which are deeply discounted.
I change and exchange tickets all day but am not allowed to exchange a Category 35 ticket.
If I sell a CAT 35 ticket and pax changes it, I have to send the reservation to somebody in India to exchange the ticket. Weird.
Delta heard about these CAT 35 fares and is asking us to sell them instead and gave us a bunch of discount certificates to match AA CAT 35 fares.
It used to be only AA had category 35 deeply discounted fares.
Now I am seeing these fares on a variety of international carriers.

Quote: terapined

I made a mistake, I don't sell EWR HKG SIN a lot, I sell ORD HKG SIN on UA a ton, its a direct flight that stops in HKG and continues to SIN.
I use ORD to go to Asia Pacific region, use EWR India and Europe and IAD for Europe.
A lot of what I book is a huge company based in Columbus IN.
They all use IND so routing through ORD easy.

That makes more sense. I remember in the mid 1990's everyone flew LAX to HKG at my office. Much of the time they were going through to Singapore. The Chicago to Hong Kong flight began in Jun 1996 and quickly became a mainstay. The EWR to HKG began in March 2001.

My cousin just took the ORD-HKG route to get a baby from China. My next door neighbor took the EWR-HKG route (also to get a baby).

Quote: terapined

Delta wants the business and is offering the same company discounts but their routing is not as good to China as UA.
Delta tough because going thru DTW the only single connection to get to China.

Delta is trying to develop Seattle as their new gateway to Asia. They now have flights to Beijing-Capital, Hong Kong, Shanghai-Pudong, Tokyo-Narita and seasonal: Tokyo-Haneda. The replacement Airbus widebodies will mostly go here.

Delta's Asian flights from Detroit are Beijing–Capital, Nagoya–Centrair, Seoul–Incheon, Shanghai–Pudong, and Tokyo–Narita.


I think Delta must make a choice between Detroit and Seattle. They can't really have both airports as gateways.

Quote: Pacomartin

I think Delta must make a choice between Detroit and Seattle. They can't really have both airports as gateways.

Why not have several gateways.
That's why I like UA, I have several gateways to choose from that makes it much easier to get lower fares.
Maybe its not cost effective for an airline but it makes my life easier.
The price of business class fares can swing wildly depending on availability of deeply discounted business fares which are capacity controlled.
Internationally to a variety of cities in Asia and Europe, its easier to get lower fares on UA because more choices. If 1 connection is sold out of deeply discounted, another connection may be available.
My last call today for a Skyteam guy, DTW to SIN to BOM to DTW.
We looked at Skyteam , DTW NRT SIN and BOM CDG DTW, price too high, Good price if DTW to SIN through Europe but absurd layovers.
He had to do UA DTW ORD HKG SIN business , 9W SIN BOM coach and UA BOM EWR DTW business. A lot cheaper then DL.

Multiple gateways makes it easier if flights get missed or canceled, easier to protect on alternative.
Last thing people want to hear is let me get you a hotel and a flight the next day.
They want choices to still get there.
Easier and cheaper to change a return when client in the middle of travel.

Quote: terapined

Multiple gateways makes it easier if flights get missed or canceled, easier to protect on alternative.

It isn't immediately clear how multiple gateways helps provide more choices. Looking at Delta again

Seattle: Beijing-Capital, Shanghai-Pudong, Tokyo-Narita, Hong Kong, and seasonal: Tokyo-Haneda.
Detroit :Beijing–Capital, Shanghai–Pudong, Tokyo–Narita, Nagoya–Centrair, Seoul–Incheon.

If all these flights were compressed at Seattle, presumably two jets would fly to the duplicate city. It seems like it would be easier if there was one airport to build the connecting flights domestically

Quote: terapined

My last call today for a Skyteam guy, DTW to SIN to BOM to DTW.
We looked at Skyteam , DTW NRT SIN and BOM CDG DTW, price too high, Good price if DTW to SIN through Europe but absurd layovers.
He had to do UA DTW ORD HKG SIN business , 9W SIN BOM coach and UA BOM EWR DTW business. A lot cheaper then DL.

I don't know how much of a time penalty he paid for the cheaper routing.

There used to be Round the World fares, but as I remember them, they often had a miinimum of 14 days requirement so businessmen would usually find them inconvenient to use.

Quote: Pacomartin

I don't know how much of a time penalty he paid for the cheaper routing.

.

Made a mistake, last post from home, my skyteam client was departing from MSP, not DTW.
Anyway looked closely at times.
UA MSP ORD HKG SIN 1.38 1.51 16 2.15 3.55 for total travel time 25 hr 39 min
DL MSP NRT SIN 12.10 2.10 7.35 total travel time 21 hr 55 min
Dl saves time

UA BOM EWR MSP 15.50 4.40 3.08 23HR 38 min
DL BOM CDG MSP 9.30 2.15 9.24 20 HR 59 min
DL saves time

UA 8149.57 USD business class
DL 15888.77 USD busimess c;ass

Quote: terapined

Anyway looked closely at times.
UA 8149.57 USD business class
DL 15888.77 USD business class

So 3:44 saving outbound and 2:39 saving inbound for 95% increase in price. Or you are paying $1214 for each hour you save.

I don't think that supersonic fares will ever be acceptable to most CFO's.

Last June an analyst said that United should close it's hub at IAD and put all traffic at EWR. I wonder if he is taking into consideration that EWR is a badly overcrowded airport.


Round the World Fares
http://www.staralliance.com/en/fares/round-world-fare/round-the-world-fare-tc/