Gun Control

Quote: reno

Quote: reno

The TSA discovered 3,391 guns in carry-on bags in 2016 (9 guns per day.) And yes, 83% of them were loaded.

Why does this number keep going up?

2,212 guns confiscated at airports in 2014.
2,653 guns confiscated at airports in 2015.
3,391 guns confiscated at airports in 2016.
3,957 guns confiscated at airports in 2017.
4,239 guns confiscated at airports in 2018.

By the way, this is why I oppose arming school teachers. Too many gun owners are terrible at keeping track of their loaded guns. And people want to trust teachers not to lose loaded guns? Crazy.

The TSA typically fines first time offenders $3,900.

https://nypost.com/2015/06/11/10-things-the-tsa-isnt-telling-you/

"sent undercover agents into some of the nation’s busiest airports armed with banned weapons and faux explosives, it found that TSA agents let those items through security 95 percent of the time, according to an exclusive report from ABC News. In fact, TSA agents failed to detect the items in 67 out of the 70 tests conducted. In a statement, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson notes that “the numbers in these reports never look good out of context” and that he has directed TSA leadership to “immediately revise its standard operating procedures for screening” and to conduct more training."

The guns were always there, screening has just improved. That and the Michael Chertoff xray machines have gotten better.

One more thing, it used to be that when flying with a firearm if packed properly in a gun case and declared, security never checked to see if it was loaded in many airports. Now maybe they actually look?

4300 loaded guns found in a year doesn't sound like that many to me. But I agree that I think it's stupid putting a loaded firearm in your luggage or trying to walk through security with one.

I'd wager overall gun homicides would drop dramatically, if only women were allowed to own a gun. That's a fact.

It wouldn't eliminate gun deaths, but drop dramatically.

Quote: rxwine

I'd wager overall gun homicides would drop dramatically, if only women were allowed to own a gun. That's a fact.

It wouldn't eliminate gun deaths, but drop dramatically.

Because people out to murder someone follow the law?

Quote: Dalex64

It keeps going up because time and time again the general public has demonstrated time and time again that they are not capable of the responsibility of gun is ownership.

License, register, train, test.

What on earth do you base this on? The vast majority are responsible gun owners. The low gun violence rate in most of the USA proves this.

Quote: petroglyph

"sent undercover agents into some of the nation’s busiest airports armed with banned weapons and faux explosives, it found that TSA agents let those items through security 95 percent of the time, according to an exclusive report from ABC News. In fact, TSA agents failed to detect the items in 67 out of the 70 tests conducted.

So if that's true, there weren't 4,239 guns in airport terminals last year. The actual number was much higher-- 50,000? 100,000? So tens of thousands of gun owners are wandering around our society blissfully unaware that they are carrying a loaded weapon with them? And we want to arm school teachers?

If an alcoholic can't stay sober when they drive, they have no business owning a car. If a gun owner can't keep track of his own loaded weapons, then he has no business owning a gun.

Quote: petroglyph

4300 loaded guns found in a year doesn't sound like that many to me. But I agree that I think it's stupid putting a loaded firearm in your luggage or trying to walk through security with one.

As you're getting ready for your trip, and you're packing your carry-on luggage, how could you not notice the loaded firearm?

Are these gun owners really thinking, "Well, the TSA fine for first time offenders is $3,900. But if I pack it in checked luggage, the airline will charge me $30 for checking the luggage, and I don't want to pay $30, so I'll try to sneak it in!" That's insane. Insane people shouldn't own guns.

Quote: Transportation Security Administration

You may transport unloaded firearms in a locked hard-sided container as checked baggage only. Declare the firearm and/or ammunition to the airline when checking your bag at the ticket counter. The container must completely secure the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be easily opened are not permitted.

Quote: reno

As you're getting ready for your trip, and you're packing your carry-on luggage, how could you not notice the loaded firearm?

Are these gun owners really thinking, "Well, the TSA fine for first time offenders is $3,900. But if I pack it in checked luggage, the airline will charge me $30 for checking the luggage, and I don't want to pay $30, so I'll try to sneak it in!" That's insane. Insane people shouldn't own guns.

It is about when you carry proper, you do not notice the gun. It becomes a part of you. It becomes normal. I go thru metal detectors often, many days multiple times a day. People all the time might be carrying a small knife that they just do not think about. One woman got flagged for her horse pick. My dad forgot he had his pepper spray. It happens.

Quote: reno

Why does this number keep going up?

An answer you'll never get.

Petro posted it for me - the Theatrical Safety Admin has a 5% success rate. I'm not a math guy, but you can see the margin of accuracy... it's not even computable. Some things you can probably assume - better detection, overall increase in number of guns in the country, but to pinpoint a "why" is likely wholly impossible.

@petro, they don't / won't even touch them. A visual inspection of the case interior to ensure firearm and ammo is not in the same case and it's on the plane. Ammo goes into another checked bag with clothes and towels. I even offered, but they told me to "leave it right in the case" (the handguns). As far as CHECKED bags go, not a bit of pomp or circumstance.

Back @reno - you don't want to know the number of "x" that still makes it on planes. Petro offered stats. One of my "brothers" is a TSE; his job is to get bombs on planes. He's ALWAYS successful. Whether first hand anecdotes or admin wide statistics, it's a wholesale fail any way you slice it. As with every single other thing, most of your fears are manufactured, and you live a life of heretofore unknown safety for no other reason than the gen pop just ain't that scary (despite how well that fear sells).


I'd ask, as both you reno and you Dalex have always strike me as intelligent... why you worried? Can either you name me ONE incident due to widespread firearms and how they've been a danger to air travel? Can you find me any stats whatsoever, not of detection as I find detecting human rights to be of no use, but of gun violence or gun crimes in or on airlines?

I mean,... if we were on the side of the road, maybe having a smoke, maybe putting a chain back on, and a farmer came over yelling at us or insinuating a crime, I'd probably be upset. I'd probably be both offended at the accusation and irritated at the abuse. Just because I'm on the side of the road and on an ATV doesn't mean I'm going to rip through your crops. All my years I never have, and in all my years I never would, because despite my activities and my presence, I show respect. I imagine if you were with me you'd feel disrespected, too. You're doing nothing wrong yet have been charged with harming another, maybe even destroying his livelihood.

That's no way to treat your neighbor and makes for a poor, suspicious, uncomfortable society.

Quote: Face

I'd ask, as both you reno and you Dalex have always strike me as intelligent... why you worried? Can either you name me ONE incident due to widespread firearms and how they've been a danger to air travel? Can you find me any stats whatsoever, not of detection as I find detecting human rights to be of no use, but of gun violence or gun crimes in or on airlines?

Statistics are going to be non-existent, because firearms have been prohibited on airplanes, and most people who might be inclined to bring one don't try to sneak it past security.

Even in the September 11 hijackings, they did not use guns - they probably figured the risk of getting caught was too high.

It would be reasonable to say that there are so few incidents of gun violence or gun crimes on airlines because people generally believe that it is hard to get a gun on a plane, so they do not try, and if access to guns on planes is limited, so is the ability to commit a crime with one.

As for why I might be worried - the risk of accidental discharge is always present. It even happened to a pilot in 2008.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-airways-pilots-gun-fires-in-cockpit/
I suppose that counts as one incident of how firearms have been a danger to air travel.

An accidental discharge in an airplane carries a high risk of hurting someone, since everyone is packed in there like sardines, or even causing a crash.

Quote: Face

t... why you worried?

Because you need to keep track of your loaded weapons. You can't lose them. If you're not sure where your loaded weapons are, how do you know if one is missing? How do you know a thief didn't steal them?

The US Army takes this problem very very seriously.

Quote: Slate

The very smallest punishment for misplacing a weapon, if it’s found within a reasonable amount of time, is a “Company Grade Article 15.” That means you can lose one grade of rank, a week of pay, and two weeks of extra duty. If that’s all you lost, you got off very, very lightly.

More often, and especially if you lose your weapon in a combat zone, you’re looking at a “Field Grade Article 15” if your chain of command is feeling very generous. You would risk losing at least one or as many as three grades of rank (E-4 to E-1), one half of your base pay for two months, 60 days restriction, 45 days extra duty.

That’s only for enlisted though. If you do the same as an officer, you won’t get the same slap on the wrists as a punishment. Your career is over.

Gun enthusiasts often say that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is for a good guy to have a gun. How can a good guy use his gun if he can't find it? ("I could swear I left it in my Chevy. Wait, maybe it's in my Ford. Oh crap, it's in my wife's Toyota.")