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February 17th, 2018 at 3:13:10 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Face

AZDuffman, here's my thing. It is very difficult for me to envision you writing your post up to your use of "him" without noticing you were about to do something that would hurt another member. I do feel there was an opportunity for you to abstain, and I do feel you made a conscious decision to put your wants over those of the forum at large. What makes me feel that way goes back to what Babs charged you with at WoV, the case of there being an opportunity to make amends, where you instead doubled down on what caused the hurt. I feel your unprovoked discussion about your personal feelings about the transgendered all but prove that your actions were pure self interest with no consideration for the forum and its many members.


I said my piece earlier on why I used "him." Per guidelines, I will not use pronouns at all when referring to Nareed, not that I refer much at all. I blocked Nareed years ago finding Nareed's attitude one of demanding respect and tolerance yet offering none. I use "him" and get called a "Cracker Breeder" in return! In any case, I will continue to block and hopefully there is peaceful coexistence.


Quote:
A little girl who has gone well passed "tomboy" to the point hormonal treatment has been mentioned. And, well... I'm white trash. My family is mostly country dumb and quite unsophisticated. I feel a a very strong desire, even a NEED, to be a part of this, to be there for my darling little cousin, as I don't have faith that any of my family has the wherewithal to do so. But I can't. I don't know anything about this. I've always been a fan of Nareed and I see that here is a possible resource, not just to allay my own fears and stresses, but to perhaps be the only person this little girl has in her life that has the knowledge necessary to help her. But ever since Nareed pulled back years ago after her treatment at WoV, I've never felt comfortable enough to approach her. I do not lay this solely at your feet, there were several involved. But I feel it important to mention this, as these actions can and sometimes do have real life consequences, as I am now unfortunately aware of.


I join you in the white trash group. Grew up on the poor side of a middle class suburb. I fee for your family member, but I also feel that all of this transgender stuff is just making it all worse. Too much of a feeling of a need to "fix" things. I am so glad I did not grow up in this era or else I would be one of those kids in school they dope up to "correct" this or that. I was going to type more, but enough said, letting it lie.

Quote:
And further... dude, it makes me uncomfortable as hell addressing you in such a manner. Not only because we're all adults and it's weird correcting an adult, but I've always felt you a solid ally. I want you to know that my insistence in not letting this go, and my recent targeting of you specifically, is not only my concern for the forum but because of my concern for YOU. I don't know whether to describe you as a kindred spirit or as an inspiration, because your typical decorum has been one which I would have prescribed for many people. You and I have oft championed the idea of not lowering ourselves to other's standards, specifically mentioning forum behavior under the umbrella of "personal responsibility". I remember you making many statements about how "mature adults" should act. And ever since election season, I see what I feel is a gradual yet continual down slide in you. No longer do you simply state a stance and let it stand, but you seem to beat people over the head with it. I get the tit for tat aspect at play here, but then again I don't, because for nearly ten years now you've always been above it. I guess I said all that to say I'm not intending to hang you from the flag pole for others to leer and jeer at. Rather, I'm willing to withstand the discomfort to try to help a friend. I hope you can see it that way.


Here is the thing since the election. The arrogance of the anti-Trump side was deafening. They all but continually called those of us who support "racist-sexist-bigot-homophobes" all the time. Or why not say, they all but called him the "white trash" candidate. I'll say what I have said before, you treat a group this way long enough, expect a reaction, and a strong one. Since the election we are still all but directly called "white trash" and it is implied that we just need to STFU and go along with how they want to remake the world.

Well. You listen to it on the news. You hear it everywhere. You go to play poker and a guy calls you see you next tuesday. All because you don't hate the guy like they do. How many anti-Trump threads were started here after the election? How constructive are the anti-posts vs the "he's racist" types? It cause reaction. And it is why I keep saying, look for a violent USA in the 2020s.

Sorry if this sounds choppy, typed in a hurry. FWIW I consider you an ally as well.

Quote:
Please try. We'll all be better off for the effort.


I'll try if everyone else does. Now I have to go work a fundraiser for the dog pound.
The President is a fink.
February 17th, 2018 at 3:34:09 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: AZDuffman
I join you in the white trash group. Grew up on the poor side of a middle class suburb. I fee for your family member, but I also feel that all of this transgender stuff is just making it all worse. Too much of a feeling of a need to "fix" things. I am so glad I did not grow up in this era or else I would be one of those kids in school they dope up to "correct" this or that. I was going to type more, but enough said, letting it lie.


I could not agree more that growing up / coming of age today is a feat I'd wish on no kid, least of all my own. But if I can do anything, and what I hope to sort of convey to anyone, is that this s#$% is getting harder and the last thing we should be doing is pushing each other apart. I mean, there is no question I do not agree with anti gunners, and there are many who I outright despise and wish would go away forever (speaking of the Feinstein's, not the rxwine's). I just feel, well, pretty much exactly as Babs does. That someone who thinks or feels differently, even in opposition to, doesn't / shouldn't immediately make them the enemy. I know I'm fighting against 10,000 years of human nature, but... I guess I'm risk adverse. Fighting to the death is great, when you win. With a little selflessness, I think all could get a lot more with a lot less strife. I dunno. Just an opinion.

Quote: AZD
Here is the thing since the election. The arrogance of the anti-Trump side was deafening. They all but continually called those of us who support "racist-sexist-bigot-homophobes" all the time. Or why not say, they all but called him the "white trash" candidate. I'll say what I have said before, you treat a group this way long enough, expect a reaction, and a strong one. Since the election we are still all but directly called "white trash" and it is implied that we just need to STFU and go along with how they want to remake the world.

Well. You listen to it on the news. You hear it everywhere. You go to play poker and a guy calls you see you next tuesday. All because you don't hate the guy like they do. How many anti-Trump threads were started here after the election? How constructive are the anti-posts vs the "he's racist" types? It cause reaction. And it is why I keep saying, look for a violent USA in the 2020s.

Sorry if this sounds choppy, typed in a hurry. FWIW I consider you an ally as well.


Choppy, yes, but completely understandable and I appreciate the reply and effort.

I get it. I feel the same emotions anyone else does. Even though I deny any political affiliation, I still feel the sting when a political side that happens to match my personal values is attacked. It stings, and my instant reaction 100% of the time is "Ohhhh, f#$% that!" and I'm ready to get it on. What I'm attempting to convey is I don't feel that is the right reaction, sort of tying into the lowest common denominator comment. People have said some pretty curt and crisp things about me personally, especially when in a gun debate following a mass shooting. Always seemed to me that staying the course, maintaining respect, and reacting calmly has always drawn more support than the ol' screaming at the that sky people laugh about on YouTube.

I also of course understand the past, and I was hoping I need not list every member individually for all to know this should be attempted by all, myself included. Thanks for understanding and for the attempt, and thanks also to the other members who not only made it through another novella, but have attempted to keep or always have been keeping a level head about such matters.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
February 17th, 2018 at 3:44:31 PM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 6
Posts: 1600
Quote: Face
Brevity is lost on me. As every single person is all too aware lol

I don't always mean to, and I do realize I could perhaps increase effectiveness if I could be more concise. I guess it's a quirk of mine, this need to be as clear and understandable as I can possibly be. Especially when dealing with official matters, I find decrees shouted from on high to be... irritating, if not outright offensive. I don't like speaking down to people, or treating them like children. Additionally, I desire to be understood. Some 80% of communication is non-verbal, and here we don't even have verbal. Tone, inflection, posture, body language, these are all lost here. I basically feel I need to be as I am just to provide the clarity needed for my words to be effective.

Plus... I guess I hope it helps convey a message. I want people to see my line of thinking, as opposed to just hearing the result of it. I want it seen both for the opportunity for members to point out flaws, but also as a sense of transparency, to see the inner workings, the influences behind the decision. And I guess for my own promotion, to see just how seriously things are taken and just how hard I and my cohorts work to try to find an acceptable solution for all. I don't always like sitting here for hours on end either. But sometimes it seems necessary.

I've (obviously) got a lot more to say. S'pose I'll make a new post for it.


You said it pretty well. I agree completely, and operate from nearly the same perspective, though I don't think I'm received in the same light.

Something to do with that 80%, and how sometimes I wear a skirt, I think. But stick to your guns, Face. You're on the right track to be of best service to the whole forum, IMO.
Never doubt a small group of concerned citizens can change the world; it's the only thing ever has
February 17th, 2018 at 3:47:23 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: AZDuffman
Per guidelines, I will not use pronouns at all when referring to Nareed, not that I refer much at all.


We have an actual female here that
was born that way, Babs. And you
can see the feminine difference in
her posts that she is obviously not
a man.

I have never detected even the slightest
hint of femininity in a post by Nareed.
In fact, they are often the polar opposite.
I do not think of Nareed as a woman
in any imaginable definition of the word.
I even tried to make amends a few years
ago, I reached out and was not even
acknowledged. So it's easy to ignore Nareed,
I will block and never mention Nareed in
any way again. Nareed has ceased to exist
for me. Buh Bye..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 17th, 2018 at 4:00:11 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: Evenbob
We have an actual female here that
was born that way, Babs. And you
can see the feminine difference in
her posts that she is obviously not
a man.

I have never detected even the slightest
hint of femininity in a post by Nareed.
In fact, they are often the polar opposite.
I do not think of Nareed as a woman
in any imaginable definition of the word.


EB, every bit of that is fine. In case you missed the gist of my postings (and I wouldn't be surprised due to their length), I'm in no way trying to convince, push, manipulate, or do anything to force someone into changing their mind or holding a stance they do not want to. All I'm trying to do is set a standard of respect. You are often critical of people, as I felt you were critical of me in the smoking / FrG thread. I like that about you, and I prefer that you keep being that way where I am concerned. But if you touch a nerve and I ask you to stop, I would expect you to stop. That is all I am asking here.

For the record, I kind of view the above post of yours as having a touch of the game playing I just lamented. Please... I can be no more open and honest than saying I am not a stable individual at the moment. I'm trying my best to keep it together and recognize rational thought, but it's a contest I feel like I'm failing and posts such as this are triggering me. Nareed's person is not the topic, her treatment is. And I feel it unfair and pretty GD awkward to be discussing her here in this manner when she is unable to respond. Please cease, or...

Quote: EB
I even tried to make amends a few years
ago, I reached out and was not even
acknowledged. So it's easy to ignore Nareed,
I will block and never mention Nareed in
any way again. Nareed has ceased to exist
for me. Buh Bye..


Do this. Either is an acceptable solution that I support, and I thank you for the effort.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
February 17th, 2018 at 4:34:46 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
I work in a virtual world
Sometimes not sue who is a he or she
One on my coworkers had a complicated situation and asked to call me
When I answered the phone, was expecting a female voice but instead it was a male
lol
Sometimes you never know

I will tone it down face
The one time I referred to AZ as her was a one time thing just to make a point
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
February 17th, 2018 at 5:16:27 PM permalink
OnceDear
Member since: Nov 21, 2017
Threads: 11
Posts: 1504
Quote: terapined
I work in a virtual world
Sometimes not sue who is a he or she
One on my coworkers had a complicated situation and asked to call me
When I answered the phone, was expecting a female voice but instead it was a male
lol
Sometimes you never know

I will tone it down face
The one time I referred to AZ as her was a one time thing just to make a point

In this virtual world, I'm on various forums with user Id's that might be assumed to be female ( because they are female names) through gender neutral, to butch masculine names. These are virtual personas, no need to stick to one character or style of posting. As long as no-one is deceived or sleighted, so what. If I want to join a knitting forum, I might choose to be Doris or Boris.
$:o)
February 17th, 2018 at 11:54:58 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Large family of lunatics disrupts Carnival cruise, threatens passengers, brawls with crew security. Arrested at port.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-carnival-cruise-in-the-south-pacific-descended-into-violent-anarchy/ar-BBJg8J2?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
February 18th, 2018 at 1:34:35 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: rxwine
Large family of lunatics disrupts Carnival cruise, threatens passengers, brawls with crew security. Arrested at port.


The guards are half the problem, kicking
people while they're down. Minimum wage
with no training will do that to you. Cruises
are the Greyhound Buses of the sea, you
never know what low life will be sitting
next to you. The 2nd video has more info.



If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 18th, 2018 at 2:44:10 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Death threats over a pair of empty flip flops that someone had trod upon? Thirty persistent brawlers including their women folk? Claims of brass knuckles being used by security seem unfounded. Remember Australian law does not permit certain phrases to be used to indicate ethnic heritage. Lebos is a term of derision that has nothing to do with lesbians, it refers to those of Lebanese heritage and generally embraces Stand Over Men, Toe Cutters, Glassers and Nightclub Owners/Doormen/Bouncers. It is a term that may NOT be lawfully used in the Australian press, corporate press releases or police reports.

For those of our members who are unaware of such things, a Glasser is a person, often female, who rams a broken bar room glass into people's faces as a means of shaking down the bar owner or enforcing social dominance in a bar room setting. Kings Cross pubs in Australia all use plastic cups now.

Glassers are becoming more common in certain areas of the UK now too though there the forbidden term is "Irish Traveler" which of course means a Man of the World or Gypsy.